When did Jesus become The Christ?

UnDisfellowshipped

The Watchtower Society says that Jesus became "The Christ" at His Baptism:

"Holy Spirit - The Force Behind the Coming New Order" Book (1975), Page 90:

"When did this Jesus become actually 'Christ the Lord'? Not on the eighth day of his birth, when he was circumcised. He was not anointed on that day. It was when he was thirty years old."

"Holy Spirit - The Force Behind the Coming New Order" Book (1975), Page 113:

"Jesus was anointed with holy spirit after his baptism in water and he thus became Christ or Anointed One, so too with his disciples."

Insight on the Scriptures Book Volume 2, Pages 1000-1001:

"Jesus of course, continued to be God's son when born as a human, even as he had been in his prehuman existence...However, about 30 years after his birth as a human, when he was immersed by John the Baptizer, God's spirit came upon Jesus and God spoke, saying, 'You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you'...Evidently Jesus, the man, was then 'born again' to be a spiritual Son with the hope of returning to life in heaven, and he was anointed by spirit to be God's appointed king and high priest."

What does the Bible say?:

Luke 2:10: The angel said to them, "Don't be afraid, for behold, I bring you Good News of great joy which will be to all the people.
Luke 2:11: For there is born to you, this day, in the City of David, a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
____________________________________________________________

Also, here other Threads I have posted which compare the Watchtower's teachings about Jesus to the teachings about Jesus found in the Bible:

Was Jesus Christ raised from the dead in His Original Human Body -- the Watchtower says NO: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=43935&site=3

Is Jesus Christ the Mediator for the "Great Crowd" -- the Watchtower says NO: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=44139&site=3

Did the Apostles and Disciples PRAY TO Jesus Christ -- the Watchtower says NO: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=44787&site=3

Is Jesus Christ the same Person as Michael the Archangel -- the Watchtower says YES: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=45177&site=3

Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 28 January 2003 7:34:5

mouthy

Yes !Isnt that great that you brought that up.That Jesus was the Christ at birth!!!! But being the Governing Body They have to demote anyone that IS someone -Putting the Little flock in Heaven & the great crowd on earth..... But in Rev 7:9 It tells us the great crowd is standing before the throne( which is in Heaven) Great post ......Keep up the research- the more it is pointed out the more we all learn

Sentinel

There you go again, "thinking with your own mind".

Carmel

If life begins at conception,, when did Jesus come alive? Since the "word" was preexistant, this would negate the "life at conception/annointed at birth" arguments. Whatcha got left is an attemp to manipulate your favorite quotes to support your preconcieved notion, especially if it disagrees with dubby doctrin. Pretty much like playing in the school yard sand box and thinking it is a metaphore for life.

caveman

Double Edge

great post...thanks!

Brummie

UnDisfellowshipped you are probably aware that the WT (as with all major doctrine) had to deliberatly change

Scripture to make it fit in with their theology on Christ becoming such at age 30? 1st Corinth 10:4, check it in the KIT, they changed the word "Was the Christ" into "meant the Christ"

because it was reffering to Jesus being the Christ way before his birth!

a big difference huh!

Brummie (I'm going on memory, it could be 2nd corinth)

(dont know whats happened to the formatting or why it posted a blank on top)

UnDisfellowshipped

Thanks for all your comments!

I truly do appreciate hearing from everyone and getting different people's opinions, beliefs, thoughts, and ideas.

Carmel/Caveman said:

If life begins at conception,, when did Jesus come alive? Since the "word" was preexistant, this would negate the "life at conception/annointed at birth" arguments. Whatcha got left is an attemp to manipulate your favorite quotes to support your preconcieved notion, especially if it disagrees with dubby doctrin. Pretty much like playing in the school yard sand box and thinking it is a metaphore for life.

I'm not entirely 100% sure what you were trying to say Caveman.

The Bible, in the Luke Scripture at the top of this Thread, says that Jesus was already the Christ [Messiah/Anointed One] when He was born on Earth. And I have never ever seen any Scriptures that say differently.

Brummie said:

UnDisfellowshipped you are probably aware that the WT (as with all major doctrine) had to deliberatly change Scripture to make it fit in with their theology on Christ becoming such at age 30? 1st Corinth 10:4, check it in the KIT, they changed the word "Was the Christ" into "meant the Christ" because it was reffering to Jesus being the Christ way before his birth!
a big difference huh!
Brummie (I'm going on memory, it could be 2nd corinth)
(dont know whats happened to the formatting or why it posted a blank on top)

Thanks for pointing that out Brummie! You do have an awesome memory!

My memory, on the other hand is not very good. I can't believe I forgot about that Scripture you pointed out.

Here are the Verses:

1st Corinthians 10:1: Now I would not have you ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1st Corinthians 10:2: and were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1st Corinthians 10:3: and all ate the same spiritual food; [and it was not Watchtowers and Awakes ]
1st Corinthians 10:4: and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of a Spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

Yes, according to that Scripture, Jesus, as the Pre-Human Word [Logos] was The Christ when He parted the Red Sea.

In fact, I believe Jesus was anointed and appointed by the Father as the Christ in Genesis 3:15.

artful

Very good post UD!
Considering Jesus' pre-human existence, I could never understand this WTS theory. The scripture in 1 Cor 10 that Brummie mentions really helps solidify that Jesus was the Christ before birth. I was not aware of this NWT discrepancy (another one for the list!).

Your idea of the Logos being appointed by God as the Christ in Gen 3:15 makes a lot of sense. I have never thought of it in that way before, thanks for mentioning this idea.

Cheers
Artful

Brummie

You may want to add Matthew 2:4 to your research. Even unblievers knew that prophecy had pointed to Jesus being born "The Christ".

Brummie

When did Jesus become The Christ?

The Watchtower Society says that Jesus became "The Christ" at His Baptism:

What does the Bible say?:

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