emiliano,
You are either incredibly uninformed, informed but naive or incredibly stupid. Or, worse: a liberal.
None of those choices are good. But you are definitely one of them. And that's not so good, either.
Farkel
The State of the Union
by Marvin Shilmer 142 Replies latest jw friends
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RandomTask
First off let me say Im terribly sorry to hear that your husband is chained to this job and not allowed to look for another one. Have you heard of the want ads? Very useful, at least I have found them to be so. I mean I guess your husband gets paid nothing for what he does, or is he able to support a family and own a home and cars on what he makes, yes I weep for you, let me go light a candle in vigil to your dire situation.
I still am very sorry to hear that you live in a house that you own, while I pine away in my one bedroom apartment, I think "just to be fair" you should sell your house and give some of the money to me so that we can both have a 2 bedroom apartment, wouldn't that be more fair?
You say your life choices have nothing to do with this? Well don't piss on me and tell me its raining, or in other words, don't have 4 kids and then complain that you can barely support them. I don't care, I believe in birth control, I don't have kids that I will have trouble to support, but I guess that was YOUR LIFE CHOICE, don't come crying to me.
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Emiliano
Random
Because their weapons are controlled by relatively sane and rational governments. Really now are you saying that the US having nukes is just as bad as Saddam having them?
Tell me how many countries are under the US colonialism. Just about all the third world. All these countries feel threatened. This question should be addressed not only to ourselves but to others in this world community.
The US having nukes is not as bad to us as Saddam having them.
The US having nukes is viewed as more of a threat to other third world countries than Saddam having them.
What is the prurpose of having all these weapons if not to be viewed as a threat?
The U S has the most so they are the most threatening.
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bluesapphire
Scarlett,
First of all I'm not a Democrat. And second of all, can you please refer to my original post and show me where I said this:
And you say that it is insane to hate someone for the kind of car they drive I agree but in Blue Sapphires post she states she hates her husbands boss for buying new Mercedes is that not hating someone for what they drive?
In case anyone else wants to read into my words something I DID NOT SAY, I will clarify:
I hate and detest my husband's boss because he exploits his workers and he buys himself expensive things such as a Mercedez Benz with the money that was rightfully earned by his employees but that he STEALS from them.
I know for a fact that any tax breaks this guy will get will NOT benefit anyone other than himself. He's not going to hire any new employees -- he could do that today (and he should since he needs them). He's not going to invest in cell phones for his employees or company vehicles or start paying their gasoline when they're running his jobs. Absolutely ZIP, ZILCH, NADA of any tax break this guy gets will "trickle down" to the really HARD WORKING people who are making him richer.
By contrast, my husband's actual take home pay is much lower from all of these items that he's paying for out of pocket which are not tax deductible to the employee only to the contractor. So the boss is actually taking tax deductions for things that the guys are paying for.
Get it now? Good.
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bluesapphire
Random, stop putting words into my mouth. I never said I cannot support my kids. I said we barely make ends meet because yes kids are expensive -- but worth it to us. Obviously you believe otherwise. I don't give a fuck what you believe. And I am well aware of my standard of living. Does my standard of living matter less than the standard of living my husband's boss has which he maintains by exploiting others?
As far as my husband's job, any company he goes to in his field will exploit him just the same or worse. He was brought up as a witness and pulled out of school at age 13 to pioneer. He went back and got his GED and is getting his own contractor's license so he can go into business for himself. When he does finally go into his own business, I am 100% sure he will not exploit his employees.
You still refuse to address the exploitation which is the issue behind my post. Why is that? Do you believe in exploitation of hard working people to get ahead?
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RandomTask
The bottom line is your husband has a job, he not only has a job but he gets paid relatively well on what you are able to afford, in my opinion. So your husbands boss stinks, why is that any concern of yours? I mean either your husband is an indentured servant who can only work for this man or he can find himself another job. If he isn't getting paid what he is worth then why sit around and take it? You have the ability to change your life in this country. Don't like what you do, then take advantage of all the opportunities to go to school, change careers.
Sure, you and your husband have a lot of responsabilities, like a family to take care of, but that's not anyones choice but your own. Perhaps he could have gone to school before getting married, then maybe hed have a better job now. I didn't go to school when I was younger and I'm paying for it now, but I go to night school to get my degree.
So really, what does it matter if your husbands boss spends his money on cheap french hookers? Is it any right of yours to tell him how to run his business and spend his money. I guess you missed the point that if guys like your husbands boss were taxed harder then they would probably just hand guys like your husband a pink slip. Gee, that job doesnt seem so bad when you don't have it anymore. So the guy is buying Mercedes, somebody had to sell it to him. Hell even Mercedes has holdings in the US which benefits US citizens, gives them jobs. Get rid of the rich and then less people have jobs. You said he buys stocks, well that investment goes to fund companies that GIVE PEOPLE JOBS.
Im sorry, but where you see exploitation I see an opportunity to own a home, have a family, own cars and watch football on sundays. We should all be so lucky.
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RandomTask
I don't believe in exploitation no, but I don't think you are being exploited, I think I have made that abundantly clear. Exploitation is recieving 10 dollars a week for working 100 hours in a shoe factory while sleeping on a dirt floor shack. I think you live far better than that. Bottom line is that yeah, if you don't get an education and then make a family its a heck of a lot harder to live, doesn't mean its anyone elses fault.
I think you feel sorry for yourself. You did complain about the expense of children and then said that you have three with one on the way, I see a contradiction there, you dont? I mean its fine to sacrifice in order to have kids, I don't have a problem with that, but then you complain about it like its anyone elses problem but your own. I also hope to have kids someday, but not unless I can support them adequately, and then if its hard, I won't come on and say how its hard to raise kids because other people make more than me.
So then someday your husband will have a business, good for him. Really I mean that. The great thing about this country is that you can improve your standard of living through self-improvement. I'm sure he will have employees who will make less than he does, I mean I don't think he will exploit them, your husbands probably a nice guy, but will it be fair that your husband has a nice house and his employees make less and live in an apartment? Now who's the "fat cat"? Thats just an illustration, but it puts things in relative terms.
You need to see both sides of the issue, im sure your husbands boss is an asshole and I hope your husband does get out from under him someday. But it doesn't mean that tax cuts are bad or that you yourself wouldn't benefit from them. And I still don't see how you or I or anyone else has the right to say to someone "hey, you make too much, give me some of your money".
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Emiliano
BlueSapphire;
What you're getting is a taste of the class war that is going on in this country.
Corporate greed will stop at nothing.
You're lucky that he is still employed. Many corporations are sending their plants abroad, leaving countless unemployed.
The working class is becoming more and more marginalized. Corporations are getting rich off of the working class and they will exploit with their power. That is a reason there is no longer labor unions or a Labor Party representing the rights of the workers.
The less voice the masses have the better for the few wealthy elite. The people in this board are nowhwere close to being in this class yet they speak in behalf of the interest of these Consciensless Greedy Corporations. More and more it is becoming a transnational corporate world where these corporations will no longer have to abide by our needs, intrests, or regulations.
It will be a one world governed by the wealthiest corporations in the world.
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email
Bluesapphaire you said,
It goes for buying himself Mercedes Benz and SUV vehicles, a yacht, a million dollar mansion, paying for his three daughters (by three different wives) educations, sports cars etc. etc.
I KNOW that if you... or your husband could afford all of these things that you so much ENVY we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I really wish and hope the best for you and your husband... and I really hope for him to be even more successful... and have added weatlth and financial security for you and your family... and then we'll see if you still think the same way.
P.S. To my comment:
why should I PAY MORE than other people that are sitting on their lazy asses all day?!
I am still wondering why in the world you took ofense in that if you KNOW your husband does NOT sit on his lazy ass all day... He's a hard working man... Why in the world did you think I was refering to HIM!? Actually he/you should root for our president since he's trying to do something for people like your husband AND myself.
Edited by - email on 30 January 2003 0:25:4
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bluesapphire
Your bottom line is different than mine.
Mine is that we should all HONESTLY make our livings and not exploit others in doing so.
I never cared what the boss spends HIS OWN money on. But my complaint is that he's spending money that HE STEALS from his employees. In addition he cheats on his taxes by writing off items that he is forcing the employees to pay for, cheating them even further out of their take-home pay. Apparently you do not see that as a problem but it is not uncommon in smaller corporations - the ones Bush thinks "trickle" will take effect. And I do see it as exploitation. Am I alone here? Anybody?
Frankly, I think companies that do this sort of thing SHOULD be put out of business. If this guy gets put out of business, my husband can go work for another contractor (who will be the same or worse) as he has done plenty of times. In this line of work it's very common. But if companies are prevented from exploiting employees in this way and forced to pay the penalties, well then eventually that will "trickle down" and other contractors will become more honest.
In response to getting a further education and moving on, you're right. However, even when that happens and my husband becomes the employer, what about the other guys getting ripped off? The problem will not be solved. You don't see it as a problem but I do. That's the difference. I'm not worried about only myself. I see it as wrong. And I don't think that giving tax benefits to these types of employers will help the economy. The fat cats will just keep getting fatter off the backs of hard working men and women.
Anyway, this whole sub-subject got started because I was responding to Email calling people lazy. My husband is anything but lazy. In fact it's 9:30 at night and he just got home. Worked a 12 hour day but will get paid for 8. Friday when he wants to take time off so I can deliver our baby he'll be docked on his paycheck. Business as usual!