Are ALL criticisms of the Society justified?

by logansrun 36 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  logansrun

  Gizmo,

  To compare the Society to the Nazi's or psychopathic killers without stating that this is an extreme illustration is quite counter-productive. You say that there is bascially "no good intent" in the "borg." Although this might be true of an extreme minority I do not feel it is generally accurate. Far from it. Religion is a psychologically bewildering establishment for humans and I don't feel that making a simplistic generalization is an intelligent way of analyzing the subject.

  I feel the leadership of the WTS has two primary motives which are in a symbiotic quagmire: 1) they want to genuinely live by their religious convictions, including a literal understanding of the Bible and 2) they want to cover their asses. The JWs believe only the former is the fundamental motivation of the WTS, ex-JWs and fundamentalist religionists seem to believe in only the latter. I feel the situation is a delicate, sometimes clumsy mixture of the two. Humans are complex creatures with all sorts of motivations pulling them in different directions, usually without the person being aware of it. Add religion to the mix and what I just wrote is compounded times ten.

  Bradley
• 

  logansrun

  Link,

  Excellent point. I agree completely.

  B
• 

  whyhideit

  They are not all bad. If they were, they would not have any followers. They have just enough good to keep people distracted enough to not all run away.

  Edited by - whyhideit on 2 February 2003 14:28:43
• 

  logansrun

  ISP,

  You stated:

  "the WTS is misleading its followers into believing that it is the FDS and that whatever it says is from god. Its doctrine is false."

  Does the GB know they are misleading it's followers? Do they not believe the doctrines they are promulgating? I know, I know; misleading is misleading whether or not the person who is misleading knows it or not. But, it does seem to lessen one's criticism against someone who does not think they are misleading someone, doesn't it?

  Bradley
• 

  SheilaM

  In short, they're pillars of the community except for that one little flaw that they like screwing little girls.

  Francois:

  Very,very good point...I think the analogy is priceless
• 

  logansrun

  Alan,

  Fascinating. I am all too curious, how long were you in the JWs and how far "advanced" (please pardon that expression) were you in the religion? I've followed some of your posts as well read your critique of the "Creation" book which was excellent. There are not many that are able to take the scholarly approach to criticising the WT or the Bible that you have done.

  Be well,

  Bradley
• 

  hillary_step

  logansrun,

  A good thread and I tend to agree with all the points that you make.

  In an ideal world, the exiting JW would take care of their internal emotional and theological struggles before going public on a Board such as this...lol, but nothing is ideal, least of all a group of people who have had their previously held 'ideals' destroyed by truth.

  I have come to see these Boards as de-mobbing areas for soldiers returning from the front line whose only real connection with one another is our past intensity of combat against the World. We sit around, and some need to for longer than others, reliving our lives again and again, complaining about the cynical and stupid generals who cheated us of our youth and sent us again and again into dangerous battles for their own perverse aims. Somewhere along the line our transport arrives and we make our way home where we try our hardest to fit into civilian life and cope with our uncertain past.

  Hopefully, after a while we move on and try to make the most of what remains of our lives, using what is useful to us from our past, and discarding the rest.

  My own pet irritation is with the 'Elder Cheats Publisher' and 'JW Window Washer Leaves Streaks' type posts, which focus entirely on personalities and often serve to bury the more important issues. Bad window washers, greedy people, flawed parents, etc. etc. are everywhere and do not necessarily reflect anything but human failings. But that is just me and I know that some relish such posts.

  Where the WTS is concerned is that all the good they do seems to be counter-matched by some seriously suspect trade-offs. For example maintaining peace and unity within the congregation, a not ignoble ideal, is facilitated at the expense of individual human rights.

  Thank you once again, for an interesting thread - HS

  Edited by - hillary_step on 2 February 2003 15:25:1
• 

  AlanF

  Hi Bradley,

  : I am all too curious, how long were you in the JWs and how far "advanced" (please pardon that expression) were you in the religion?

  Born and raised in it. I "advanced" to MS status by age 24 in 1975, handled the accounts for three years. In 1977 I started studies at a community college, and a year later moved to another state and a top notch college. By that point I was inactive, and gradually became convinced that the JWs were completely out to lunch. You can find more details here: http://www.geocities.com/h2obiographies/bios/bio-af.html

  : I've followed some of your posts as well read your critique of the "Creation" book which was excellent. There are not many that are able to take the scholarly approach to criticising the WT or the Bible that you have done.

  Thanks. I usually try to be as fair as possible, although I'll be the first to admit that many times the sheer magnitude of damage done by the Society pushes me over the edge.

  I should qualify one statement I made in my last post: Sometimes presenting evidence that is less than totally solid is perfectly fine. For example, if I know that a man molested a child, but I cannot prove it in the sense of the Society's "rules of evidence", it would still be a breach of ethics for me not to warn people against him. Similarly, people have told me in private some of their experiences with Watchtower nastiness, but because of family considerations they are not willing to give their testimony in person. If I feel that they are credible, I will sometimes present in a public forum what I have been told, with an explanation that this is hearsay evidence. Readers are usually capable of discerning whether such testimony has the ring of truth. After all, what we're concerned with is the truth, not rules of evidence. Also, there are levels of confidence in evidence that are used for various purposes. A criminal trial requires a higher standard of evidence than a civil trial does.

  AlanF
• 

  minimus

  Hillary, so glad to see you on board lately. Regarding those irritations that involve ANY human being, not just Witnesses, I see your point. But, Jehovah's Witnesses are supposed to be different. They do not act like the world. So these types opf criticisms are acceptable to me, as long as you really don't believe they're true.
• 

  LDH

  Hillary,

  May I lovingly disagree with your point here?

  My own pet irritation is with the Elder Cheats Publisher and JW Windo Washer Leaves Streaks type posts, which focus entirely on personalities and often serve to bury the more important issues. Bad window washers, greedy people, flawed parents, etc. etc. are everywhere and do not necessarily reflect anything but human failings

  I personally STRIVE to focus entirely on personalities, and not doctrine.

  Why?

  Because I spent my entire childhood hearing about how righteous Jehoober's people are. As a result, the congregation I spent my entire youth in became the bar by which other JWs were judged.

  For example, after being cheated by Dawn Pierson out of about $1,500 when I was a regular pioneer, the elders did not intervene although I repeatedly asked them to. To this day, Dawn Pierson owes me that money. I took her on a trip to Washington DC with me and charged her portion on my American Express Card, which I had at the age of 19.

  Dawn promised to reimburse me for her portion. It's 17 years later and all I got was a lousy $25 payment.

  Am I pining away for my money? HELL NO.

  I cite this example because I want lurkers to take note: There is a Dawn Pierson in EVERY congregation.

  I cite personal examples because that is what smacked me in my face. The anomaly I thought was my congregation, was in fact, EVERY CONGREGATION.

  EVERY CONGREGATION is full of liars, cheaters, adulterers, Holier-than-thous, etc.Walmart Cheese Cracker men who sit in judgement of people's lives.

  Once you realize that, it is only a simple step to realizing this can't POSSIBLY be God's organization. It is just a man-made religion full of the same type of people that make up every other religion. Nothing more, nothing less.

  Lisa

  Personal Examples Class