Does God exist outside of Time? (page 2)

rem

That being true then if the creator lives outside the universe he therefore must live outside our dimesion of time.

If he lives outside of our universe then he cannot observe or interact with it.

Or if he is everywhere at once then time must not be divided for him by past, present or future, because in side Black Holes time stops, and since time is just another dimension like the 3 other dimensions of space then if he is everywhere at once he would be in all of time (past present and future).

This is way over my head.

rem

D wiltshire

Rem,

It is not over your head, just counter intuitive. Just as quantum mechanics is.

Newton taught that "Time" was universal, that is that time is the same through out the universe. Einstien theory of relativity however shows that time is not universal. There is no such thing as universal time. Time stops inside the event horizon of black holes. Time stops if you reach the speed of light.

The fact that time is not universal means that throughout the universe time is different, with places time has where time stopped all together. Also the fact that time is indeed a dimension (the 4th). That being the case if God was Omnipresent past present and future would not be separated.

I guess that is about as clear as I can make it. First one has to grasp the idea that time is not universal, it is not an easy idea to understand "intuitively" since only we don't readily see this clearly in the everyday world we experience.

onacruse

DW:

Have you read Peter Ouspensky's Tertium Organum? Also, perhaps Hermann Weyl's Space Time Matter and Ernst Mach's Contributions to the Analysis of the Sensations ?

I've only read parts of them, and it's intriguing how the thoughts of these historical scientists and mathematicians interplay along the same metaphysical lines as your question.

My answer to your question: Yes, God exists outside of time (as we know it), as well as beyond dimension (as we experience it).

Very intriguing! I dare say you have more to offer on this?

Craig

D wiltshire

On,

Have you read Peter Ouspensky's Tertium Organum? Also, perhaps Hermann Weyl's Space Time Matter and Ernst Mach's Contributions to the Analysis of the Sensations ? I've only read parts of them, and it's intriguing how the thoughts of these historical scientists and mathematicians interplay along the same metaphysical lines as your question.

No I have not read those books. Right at this moment I'm reading all or most of Paul Davies books. Currantly I'm reading "About Time" I have Einstein's book "Relativity".

Basically anything that is readable by a non-scientist on the subjects of quantum, physics, time, cosmology and chaos, are books that I find interesting. Trying to understand the concepts takes alot of thought, which I find both enjoyable and hard work.

Very intriguing! I dare say you have more to offer on this?

Yes, but difficult to put in writting. As I find different things of interest to me I try to discuss them on the boards where I find some mutual interest.

onacruse

DW:

As I find different things of interest to me I try to discuss them on the boards where I find some mutual interest.

I am aware of (but have not personally met) a number of posters here that are interested in these rather obtuse subjects. (Keeps us out of trouble at the pool hall )

Maybe, just maybe, if this kind of topic gets popular enough, Simon will set up a forum just for us "eggheads", eh?

My e-mail is open. If you like, please feel free to contact me.

Craig (of the "hopelessly in love with mathematical physics" class)

SYN

D Wiltshire, time is relative - it happens according to your frame of reference.

Also, I'm confused. Which god are we discussing here? There's so many, one can easily get confused...

TheOldHippie

D wiltshire, mighty interesting! - however, I always get this chill down my spine when such things are speculated about ........ They are kind of on the edge of or outside of what my mind manages to speculate upon without losing its balance or sanity or ease.

Time is relative in a strange, down-to-earth way, too. Saturday, I slid off my horse, the saddle was not tight enough and as I lost my balance, I tipped while sitting glued to the saddle sideways and kind of sat upside-down for a fraction of a second before reaching ground. Looked mighty funny, and lasted a second or two - but to me, it took a looong time, I felt I lost my balance, that I tipped to one side, that I was closing in on the ground, and I had so many thoughts going on - ooops! I am sliding, I wonder how this will end, hope I won't hurt myself, I hope my nose won't break like the last time, here comes the ground, ooops! I'm sitting upside down, I got mud in my face, aha! it did not hurt - etc. It's like when you, as in my northern areas, crash with an elk / moose - people say that in the second it takes, they see the elk approach, look it in the eyes as it slides across the car etc.

Of course nothing like the "deep stuff" you are writing about, but at least time is felt to move at different speeds at times .....

Abaddon

Hi DW, long time...

We'll forego the 'what god?' schpiel this time!! Or shall we?

Obviously you are talking of the Judaeo/Christo/Islamic god, prehaps more specifically still the Christian Biblegod.

Now

1) Does God even need time or space to exist?

From the Bible, this answer would by inferance be 'no'. God originated space and time, so therefore existed before them, so therefore doesn't need them.

2) Does he look at time the same way we do?

From the Bible, a thousand years are as a day in his eyes. One assumes this is something like how summer days lasted forever when you were five, and now last five minutes, but taken to the extremes one must with a indefinate entity.

3) Does he view past, present, and future as all the same?

Only if he is an idiot, as demonstrably past, present, and future are different.

Those are really rather elementary questions; two are answered form the Bible, one from logic.

What is more interesting is, does god perceive the future, i.e., can he fortell future events, and if so, with what accuracy? The accuracy of a skier knowing THAT slope is dangerous, or the accuracy of a sports-commentator pointing out where the skier went wrong when looking at a replay.

This has knock-on questions which can inevitably bring us back to the 'what god' question!!

All the best

ozziepost

WTS teachings seem to be based on a Creator who is bound by time and space. Not only is He the Great Timekeeper but all His works are within time and space. Hence we has the ludicrous teaching in the first half of last century that God resides in the galaxy of Pleiedes. Although that has been ditched, the publications still treat God as being in a set place named Heaven. Take for example the " Ezekiel " book of some years ago, and the more recent "Revelation Climax" book.

This differs greatly from Christian teaching which is that God created time and space and so is not bound by it. Heaven is not a place so much as being in the presence of God.

So, in answer to the question "Does God exist outside of Time?" Yes, of course!

Cheers, Ozzie

Does God exist outside of Time?

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