Just got off the phone with my dad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (page 2)

Scully

((((((((( Jesika ))))))))))

Almost a year ago, I had a similar conversation with my dad. I knew I got under his skin because I did as I was taught as a good JW (heh heh heh) and used an illustration. What if my 10 year old daughter (his eldest grand-daughter) came to him - in his capacity as an elder - and said "Grand-dad, Brother So-and-So touched me under my panties and told me not to tell anyone"? Back then, he gave me the old one raised eyebrow frown, as if to say You know better than to go THERE!, but he stuck to the two eyewitness rule, and said that if Brother So-and-So was confronted, he would have to tell the elders the truth - producing two eye witnesses to the confession. So I said, "Well what if he lies and says nothing happened? Are you going to put your own grand-daughter through a judicial committee and basically call her a liar?" He wouldn't answer me. He stomped away in a huff. It must have just dawned on him that elders are counting on people to be honest with them, and the possibility that a pedophile would deny any accusations probably never occurred to him.

He watched The Fifth Estate. His opinion now is that the WTS has a big problem on their hands. His opinion now is that the elders have no business dealing with cases like this. His opinion now is that elders should be directing "the flock" to go straight to the police.

It took almost a whole year, but he will no longer defend the WTS's two eye witness policy in cases of child sexual abuse.

There's always hope, Jes!!

Love, Scully

wednesday

jess, do u know u are logged into chat and have been for nearly 2 days now? where are u?

JT

*wishing she never brought this up*

###########

i hate to seem cold , but you have learned lessson 1.

just a suggestion, you may want to read this link, it sheds some light on why you can show a person proof, facts, evidence, etc and it has no impact-

the most important lesson that a former jw MUST LEARN in my view is HOW AND WHEN as well as EVER - to talk to family and friends about wt- most former jw are not prepared for the backlash that in most cases you will get and as a result they end up with the feeling that you currently have, the anger and frustration of literally feeling like you are talking to a wall is very painful, esp if it is family

that is why i tell everyone to read read read all you can about how High Control groups operate and how folks act who are controled by them

this way it helps you and i too understand how to approach them and what to expect this way we don';t even up with that "Mental thing" it is like you want to grab them in the collar and say "Damnit can you see they are hoodwinking and bamboozling you"

but they in most case simply will not work

consider this, your dad as been a jw for what 10-20-30+ yrs, and for all those years the wt has prepared him for the day that a person , friend, family member will step to him and say "The Society is Wrong" and that is the reason each person on this site can TELL THE STORY of the reaction they got when they tried to talk about the org

like i say, jw will shut down FASTER than an ATM Machine on the 3rd wrong tried

smile

http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=7798&site=3

Edited by - jt on 10 February 2003 9:19:5

Jesika

Ok, now that I am calm, I will go into what happened.

First I want to say, I shouldn't have called him. My mom told me earlier that day my dad had called her about some stuff they are still sorting out. I haven't talked to my dad in MONTHS.

Well, it wasn't really late, and I had just left my mom's house (where she had made me a couple drinks--which turned out to be stronger than I thought) and went to my sister's house.

This is where I had the great idea to call my dad (heavy sarcasm). I don't know how it came up, but I asked him about the 2eye witness rule (for those who don't know, they require 2 eye witnesses to sexual abuse.) and his comment to me was "You had 2 eye witnesses, me and you" I said yes I know that, but nothing was done. He told me it was "handled". Then I asked him if he saw the TV program I was on, and he said no, but was told about it and he read the story. He didn't seem pleased.

Then I started to ask him about my son, and the fact that noone in the family has even tried to meet him. I guess I was asking about that to see what he would say.

Well, he said that it was fine if my son wanted to meet them, but I added the fact that I would be with my son if he did meet anyone.

Then he asked me if I had been drinking. I told him I wasn't drunk, and this was something I was wondering for a while and so I decided to ask him about it.

I was amazed when he told me they would have no problem with this arrangment. I was shocked, and asked him when did that change.

It didn't make much sense to me that my family who I haven't talked to in 12yrs would all of a sudden have no problem speaking to me. Of course he added "As long as you don't bring stuff up", so I said what do you mean by "stuff". He was aggrivated, and said "You know, stuff".

So, there you have it, my father thinks that I will bring up abuse issues in frount of my son while he is meeting my family for the first time.

I don't want my son to meet this side of my family, and I think I did this just to see what he would say. My son has never asked to meet my dad's side of the family and I don't want to expose him to them unless he asks to meet them. Untill then I will keep my son far away from them.

I guess I will write my dad a letter at tell him (while I am of sound mind) how I feel and why. I guess I call him when I have been drinking cause it is easier to talk to him, I am not as hurt by what he says since I am numb all over. I do remember our conversation, so I wasn't drunk, but I was feeling pretty good.

I will write more later. Oh, I don't know why I have been in chat for so long, but I will make sure to logoff this time.

Thanx for your support,

Jesika

PS. My dad said he will give my # to my family and they can call me if they want to meet with my son. I am not holding my breathe.

Jesika

bttt

JT

please dont' make the mistake that so many former jw do when it comes to family- you dads reaction is much in line with his indoctrination, I used to be a true Society Man in the fullest extent of the word, if it was not IN PRINT i didn't do it and if it was- it was done-

your story i hate to say is not unusal at all in fact it falls right in line with the exp of so many of us here, the only issue at this point is HOW YOU WANT TO HANDLE your new found knowledge - there are many who due to how they deal with jw have been able to keep a reasonable relationship which provides them with the opportunity to help them-

if you shut them down then you can rest assured you will not be able to help, but most jw in my exp have some issue with the org, they have just never been allowed to express it-

many here will tell you that for years i thougth so and so or felt this way or that way-

one of the most important things a jw needs is a COMFIRMATION of what they feel or think

but since the org doesn;t allow you to talk to anyone about it without being DOGGED- THE AVG JW PUTS IT INTO THE BACK OF THEIR MIND , but it is always there-

so you have to help him if possible to feel comfortable disagreeeign with the org, it may take time, but just like it took time before a person becomes a jw, it will take time for them to leave

don't give up just change your approach

JT

Jes

shoot me an email when you get a chance

[email protected]

SheilaM

{{{{{{{Jesika}}}}}}}

I learned the hard way after much pain, that an ass doesn't change Jes. I did everything I could to make my father change and you know what it was futile. I guess what I am saying Jes is that is wasted time, emotions and tears. I was an optimistic lil fool myself and it got me know where. My Dad is still an ass (of the nondub type) he is selfish, hostile and self-centered and you know what I don't bother anymore he is all of those things and has no impact on my life. I called him when my daughter graduated he didn't show up I called him when my Granddaughter was born still hasn't driven the two whole hours to see her. That was it kapppput no more.

Jesika

JT---You have mail.

Sheila----I just wish it didn't have to be this way, ya know??

Jesika

bttt

Just got off the phone with my dad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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