Preparing for attack

by Sadie5 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • abbagail
    abbagail

    Thanks for the emergency kit list, the education about the usefulness of those cheapo-two-way-radios, and the comments about air supply in rooms/apts. I believe the show I watched said to tape up the windows and doors of ONE room of your house, as a "safe room."

    I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis very well. My Dad went into the "bomb shelter business" during that time. He installed several for other people, but the one he had for us never got put down into the ground. So all thru my teenage years in our backyard was this giant black-metal "bomb shelter" sitting above ground. It got used like a garage, full of junk, and a place for my brothers to play. LOL. Wish I had one of those now!

    As far as TV shows, I love the "Agency." That Beau Bridges is great! as is the entire cast and the story lines. Wish we really were in TV-fantasy-land with all of this.

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    My house has so many places for air to come in that plastic over the windows would be a waste of time. The windows have been replaced by the new type that is air tight anyway. I think we should wrap all the muslim leaders in plastic, that might work.

    Ken P.

  • Skeptic
    Skeptic

    Sounds like propaganda to gain public support for the war on Iraq. What better way to get support than to scare the shit out of your own citizens using a possible what-if scenario? After all, after 9/11, anything is possible.

    How does one get the American public to really relate to a need to go to war on a weak country in the Middle East? You prepare them for a possible emergency. Not only does this show that you are a responsible, caring government, it drives the necessity of war home to Joe Average in a way that goes deep into his mind and heart.

    Lying to the public was used to gain support in Canada for the Gulf War. Remember the stories of Iraqi soldiers taking newborn babies out of incubators and taking the incubators away? Why, they even had an Iraqi nurse on the news who saw it happen. Turned out, the whole story was fabricated. The "nurse" turned out to be an ambassador's daughter. She was not a nurse, and had not been to Iraq. But by the time the public was informed, we didn't care. The public strongly supported the Gulf War.

    The first casualty of war is truth.

    I remain skeptical because I have seen the Bush government do similar stunts. Remember the energy crisis in California a few years ago (2000/2001)? Where electricity prices jumped so high that electrical utilities went bankrupct? Turned out that the Bush govt. helped that crisis along until they got the bill passed that allowed Artic exploration for oil. Then the crisis was quickly fixed. Funny, because previously we were told that it would take five years to build the needed power generation plants. And suddenly, the crisis is fixed within months.

    Or how the Bush govt. knew that a jetliner would be flown into a building five months in advance? And they couldn't increase airport security then? They could, but they gain so much political power now by letting the WTC tradgey happen.

    I am not saying that Bush and company is more corrupt than previous govts. What I am saying is that I don't trust what they tell the public. No matter what, they will have war with Iraq. Why? Because they want to, that's why. I suspect the reason has to do with control of oil or control of the Middle East. As nutty and bad as SH is, he controlled the surrounding countries quite well. And the U.S. could control SH. Now that SH is not listening to the U.S., the U.S. has suddenly decided that SH is a threat to other countries.

    Richard

    Edited by - Skeptic on 12 February 2003 12:23:58

  • wheelwithinwheel
    wheelwithinwheel

    The government doesn't want to get accused of having not sufficiently warned everyone before the next attack. I think if you live or die will depend where you are at that time. I see plastic and duct tape as good to soothe those worried and useful to drum up support for a war, but as protection? I doubt it. The guys who deal with these products do so in a controlled environment and are suited up specially when they have to handle them. If soldiers have to face an attack on the battle field are they even well enough equipped to protect their lives? Even if plastic and duct tape did give some protection, eventually oxygen would get depleted, food would run out, and you would have to emerge to face the bleak situation.

    This reminds me of the nuke attack scares years ago. Even if you managed to survive in a shelter, what would you come out to eventually? If there is a chemical or biological attack, pray you are very far away, or very very close.

    Take Rudy Giuliani's advice: Get on with your normal life.

    Edited by - wheelwithinwheel on 12 February 2003 13:0:50

  • Silverleaf
    Silverleaf

    I'm with Ken - I think we should wrap all the muslim leaders in plastic, that might work.

    I'll spring for the duct tape.

    Silverleaf

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    The plastic sheets and duct tape are only intended to be used to reduce the amount of air coming into a house.

    If there is a Dirty Bomb, Chemical, or Biological attack, you will only need to seek shelter for a few days at the most. It doesn't take very long for the wind will carry away these things.

    Dirty bombs only affect a small area. You only need to evacuate that area and the people down wind will need to seek indoor shelter for a day or two while the radioactive dust is carried away.

    These are all very simple measures that will help a lot.

  • pandora
    pandora

    Just a comment on the Cheap Radios. I have a pair of the 9.99ea. specials. My daughter takes one and walks around the block with it, talking the whole way. Works fine. I can't tell you how many brick walls are between us at the time, but you can figure a lot.
    The only problem we have had is if someone else is on the same channel. It gets a little confusing figuring out who is talking to who.
    -P(J)

  • maxwell
    maxwell

    I know this thread has been scrolled down, but I thought I'd post this Washington Post article. I'm not disputing what anyone has said in this thread. This article could be wrong but it does say some things about plastic that contradict what was said in this thread. So now you have another view.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A225-2003Feb12.html

  • Trauma_Hound
    Trauma_Hound

    Pandora, your only talking about a few hundred yards in a block also, try doing the same a 1 mile or 2 out. Those radios are great if your talking to friends and etc a few yards away, but for any real communication, emergency communication you won't be hearing traffic from emergency services on those frequencys. Amature radio stations typically are the first comunications to go up in a distaster, and the last to go down. They goes hundreds of miles, as aposed to a few miles (in the right conditions). You can transmit alot more power, and Amature radio operators are allowed to modify they're radio's to work on Emergency services frequencys, and legally use them to contact emergency services, in an emergency.

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Maxwell, that article contained some very good information from authorities who work in the relevant fields. Here is a copy of it...

    Officials: Safe Room Is Not No. 1 Priority


    FBI official Van A. Harp discusses the recently heightened terrorism alert. At right are Executive Assistant Chief Michael Fitzgerald and Chief Charles H. Ramsey of the D.C. police. (Sarah L. Voisin -- The Washington Post)


    _____ From Today's Post _____ Vague Fears, Real Concerns (The Washington Post, Feb 13, 2003)
    Find Post Stories by Topic:
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    Bioterrorism Preparedness Guide
    Dirty bombs, anthrax and smallpox: An informative guide for to understanding the threat and protecting you and your family.

    E-Mail This Article
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    Subscribe to The Post
    By John Mintz and Lyndsey Layton
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Thursday, February 13, 2003; Page A01

    Creating a safe room in a private residence is of limited utility in some kinds of terror attacks, and people should focus first on some of the more mundane steps of emergency preparation such as food and water supply, a family communication plan and evacuation scenarios, U.S. officials and civil preparedness specialists said.

    The prospect of a family barricading itself in a plastic-wrapped safe room, highlighted this week by the Department of Homeland Security, has captured public attention, sending many people to hardware stores in search of the plastic sheeting and duct tape officials suggested they should have.

    "I'm not going to tell people not to [prepare to construct a safe room], but there are so many other things that people have not done," said Randall Larsen, director of the private Anser Institute for Homeland Security and a retired Air Force colonel. "Creating a communications plan, having an extra supply of important prescription drugs, getting a good supply of diapers or infant formula if you've got infants."

    There is no single strategy for Americans scrambling to protect themselves in an age of terror. The best advice depends on the attack's circumstances, civil defense and terrorism experts say -- what kind of weapon is used, the proximity and even factors as uncontrollable as wind direction.

    Staying in a room sealed in duct tape and plastic sheeting could provide significant protection if terrorists attacked with toxic chemicals -- by blowing up a tanker truck, for example -- because the plume could dissipate in as little as an hour. Plastic sheeting could provide an effective shield for at least that long, though remaining in a well-sealed room for longer than a few hours would be impossible because the oxygen would run out, public health specialists said.

    But if a nuclear weapon or radiological "dirty bomb" were used, seeking refuge in a plastic- and tape-sealed upstairs room in a house would be a poor tactic for avoiding radiation. In that event, the best place to hole up is in the basement of a large building, a subway tunnel or an underground home cellar. Plastic sheeting would not help, and people could be advised to stay indoors for days -- or weeks in a nuclear blast.

    The federal announcement Monday unnerved people in Washington and New York. Although domestic defense officials wanted to avoid panicking people, they believe releasing even such disturbing advice is the responsible course given the government's conclusion that there is now a "high risk" of terrorist attack. Many Americans had remained in denial about the potential danger, even as the national threat index was raised Friday, they said.

    "We're pleased people are heeding the advice," said a senior domestic security official. "But we know this information has to be given out in doses" to avoid a public stampede.

    Officials said their Monday briefing was just the first stage in a highly orchestrated, long-term public education campaign that will provide information about the wide variety of possible terror attacks and how to respond to each.

    Government officials acknowledged that they must communicate more clearly with the public about safe rooms. Under some terrorist attack scenarios, even those involving toxic chemicals, it would be ill-advised to flee into such a room. If terrorists sabotaged a chemical tank so that it released poisonous gas over several hours, the toxic plume likely would linger for a longer period than people could stay in the room, experts said.

    In most cases of chemical or biological attack, the best idea is to get upwind of the source of danger. Paying attention to officials' advice on news reports is the way to determine how to do that, officials said.

    Some news reports have said it is best to seek refuge from chemical attack in an upstairs room, but that isn't necessarily true, officials said. Although most toxic chemicals are heavier than air and tend to settle to the ground after release, they reach the buoyancy of the air around them when traveling downwind. Officials advised choosing the best room, not necessarily the highest, for "sheltering in place" from chemical releases.

    To seal a room, officials advise pre-cutting plastic to cover room vents, doors and windows. Windowless rooms are best. "Turn off all ventilation, including furnaces, air conditioners, vents and fans," said a guide published by the Federal Emergency Management Agency several months ago.

    "Ten square feet of floor space per person will provide sufficient air to prevent carbon dioxide buildup for up to five hours," the FEMA guide said.

    Chemical vapors eventually will seep into even sealed rooms.

    John Sorensen, a top emergency preparedness researcher at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee, said that in the 1990s, officials conducted detailed experiments in which people duct-taped plastic sheets to seal up rooms. They did it efficiently, reducing chemical infiltration by as much as 90 percent during the first hours, he said.

    But the experiments yielded a second conclusion, as well.

    "It had a very positive psychological effect," he said. "People said they really felt better doing the taping, that they weren't just sitting around waiting" to die. Officials said preventing panic and ensuring that the public remains focused enough to follow officials' instructions is paramount in civil emergencies.

    If a terrorist attack spews radioactive particles into the air, experts say, three concepts should be kept in mind: Seek the heaviest possible shielding and the greatest possible distance from the radioactive material and stay away as long as possible.

    FEMA's guidebook recommends "heavy, dense materials -- thick walls, concrete, bricks, books and earth -- between you and the fallout particles. . . . An underground area, such as a home or office building basement, offers more protection than the first floor of a building. A floor near the middle of a high-rise may be better, depending on what is nearby at that level on which significant fallout particles would collect. Flat roofs collect fallout particles, so the top floor is not a good choice, nor is a floor adjacent to a neighboring flat roof."

    For biological attacks, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), a physician and public health expert, recommended in his recent book, "When Every Moment Counts," that people have masks for each family member rated "N95" or better.

    One option that a number of scientists said holds promise for protection is the installation in homes and office buildings of air-handling machinery. The High Efficiency Particulate Air, or HEPA, filter pumps filtered air into an area faster than the air can escape through cracks in the walls, creating "overpressure." This pressure imbalance makes it impossible for toxins in the outside air to enter the sealed area.

    Marketers of the equipment, which sells for about $1,500 a home, say it could protect against a chemical or biological attack.

    One proponent is Richard L. Garwin, a physicist with decades of government experience in technology and security. "The first and most practical defense against biological warfare attack is to maintain 'positive' air pressure of filtered air within buildings," he wrote in the New York Review of Books two years ago.

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