by AlainAlam 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
waton, "does that mean the 2 great J's have to feel no compassion because they know within a day or two by their reckoning, they will resurrect them all?" Touché!
StephaneLaLiberte Yes, the whole issue of sovereignty thing as well is lacking... Sinon t'es français? :)
blueberryk9 "There is more to man's history than revealed in the biblical accounts! The Bible also lacks a good explanation of why we find ourselves as we are." Definitely
Jesus died (slept) for three days and was then resurrected. How is that so great of a sacrifice?
Because the wages of sin is death. The good news is that it doesn't have to be your own death. God provided a substitute for your sins, not Adam's.
This is an area of primary deception in WT literature.
blubbery: how could a fair, loving, just God demand a brutal sacrifice from his blameless and innocent Son? No, the reason I do not believe the Bible accounts is because my litmus test is: Does the thing in question reveal God's Love? If it does not, I do not find it credible.
The concept of one person agreeing to die so that their son, daughter or other beloved person may live, is the subject of some of man's greatest literature.
Jesus Substitutionary Sacrifice is beautifully described here:
“God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
A legal exchange takes place here between the believer and Jesus.
This exchange is the ultimate consideration on the subject of free will. God gave it to us and as a result we inherited a "sin nature" which is demanded if there truly is free will involved.
In the exchange described above, born out of the same free will, a person agrees to have their sin nature removed and immortality installed in its place.
Why would anyone reject God over that?
Sea Breeze, you didn't get my post. You're talking about the value of the ransom. I'm talking about its cost.
If the Bible is true, then the ransom is very valuable. But for Jehovah to have his son sleep for a day and a half doesn't come at a great cost to him.
If I'm dying of thirst and you give me a cup of water, then the cup is very valuable. But it doesn't cost you much. So I'll appreciate what you've done, and will love you for it; but if afterward you go around telling people "I gave Alain a cup of water; there is no greater love than this" or "one would barely give a good man a cup of water, but I gave it to a stranger/sinner", then you'd just be wrong.
Does this make sense?
You make it sound like Christ received some sort of Immaculate Injection and then took a nap.
He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. - Is. 53:5
Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God. - 1 Peter 3: 18
I know he suffered, but:
1) He didn't have to suffer for the ransom to be offered. According to the Bible, it's his sacrificial death, not suffering, that saves us. A "soul for a soul".
2) The Bible says "there is no greater love than this, to suffer die for our friends", "we would barely suffer die for a good person, let alone for a sinner". So even if his suffering is somehow necessary for the ransom to be offered, we're being told that just his death was very costly to himself and to Jehovah.
I think an informed JW (a rare thing these days) would point out that 1 - blood had to be poured out and 2 - to remove the curse of the Law from Israel he had to be hung on a tree.
From a traditional xtian perspective Jesus' death was vicarious punishment for our sins. Therefore his pain and separation from the Father was significant.
To a JW Jesus died to buy back the value of the perfect life that Adam forfeited by his disobedience
To a Christian Jesus died to take the punishment that is due for my sins
Sorry it's very long
Yes, but what a dramatic display of justice the suffering provided! God's laws provide not only for "soul for a soul" as you accurately state. But, also "an eye for an eye" and "a tooth for a tooth" as well.
Let's take the common practice of abortion where an innocent baby has his body shredded into pieces. According to the Justice of God, I should have my own body treated the SAME way, since I am guilty of this crime.
People are desensitized to the criminality of their behavior until they see the works of God and the Holy Spirit wakes up their conscience.
I view the scourging of Jesus and the shredding of his body as an accurate portrayal of justice for those guilty of the crime of abortion.
Yet, Jesus' suffering and death is sufficient for ALL sin and sinners, being "made sin for us".
