The Immorality of Losing (page 2)

ThiChi

I am for Israel to reclaim what was once theirs. So what? It is not a bad thing, is it? I am an American. You can be an American and for Isreal's State.

Trauma_Hound

So why don't you personally give them 5 Billion + a year of your money?

Satanus

Ti Chi

I am for Israel to reclaim what was once theirs. So what? It is not a bad thing, is it?

When was it theirs? What about the millions of palestinians that were living there when jews decided it was theirs? About half of the population of jordan is displaced palestinians. Talk is of deporting the rest of them.

You can be an American and for Isreal's State.

I suppose. While these people named in my above post may be very good at their jobs, they may act in ways that are favorable to isreal at the expense of, maybe even to the harm of the interests of their hosts, especially in a crunch. The question to ask in regards to all policies and events is: who benefits? If american govt employees put the interests of another country ahead of american citizens, it's a very serious wrong, in my opinion. It's a danger and a burden to all of the people in the country.

Did you ever read how liver flukes control ants?

If the ant sits the whole night without being eaten and the sun rises, the flukes let the ant loosen its grip on the grass. The ant scurries back down to the ground and spends the day acting like a regular insect again.

Here is an excerpt from a story from discover magazine august 2000 about this.

But for many other parasites, the game is more complicated—they must journey through a series of animal species in order to survive and procreate. Such parasites exert extraordinary control over their hosts, transforming them into seemingly different creatures. They can change a host's looks or scent to appeal to a predator. They can even alter its behavior to force it into the next host's path.
The mature lancet fluke, Dicrocoelium dendriticum, nestles in cows and other grazers, which spread the fluke's eggs in their manure. Hungry snails swallow the eggs, which hatch in their intestines. The immature parasites drill through the wall of a snail's gut and settle in the digestive gland. There the flukes produce offspring, which make their way to the surface of the snail's body. The snail tries to defend itself by walling the parasites off in balls of slime, which it then coughs up and leaves behind in the grass.
Along comes an ant, which swallows a slime ball loaded with hundreds of lancet flukes. The parasites slide down into the ant's gut and then wander for a while through its body, eventually moving to the cluster of nerves that control the ant's mandibles. Most of the lancet flukes head back to the abdomen, where they form cysts, but one or two stay behind in the ant's head.
There the flukes do some parasitic voodoo on their hosts. As the evening approaches and the air cools, the ants find themselves drawn away from their fellows on the ground and upward to the top of a blade of grass. Clamped to the tip of the blade, the infected ant waits to be devoured by a cow or some other grazer passing by.
If the ant sits the whole night without being eaten and the sun rises, the flukes let the ant loosen its grip on the grass. The ant scurries back down to the ground and spends the day acting like a regular insect again. If the host were to bake in the heat of the direct sun, the parasites would die with it. When evening comes again, they send the ant back up a blade of grass for another try. After the ant finally tumbles into a cow's stomach, the flukes burst out and make their way to the cow's liver, where they will live out their lives as adults.

http://www.discover.com/aug_00/featparasite.html

Another analysis showing that hosts are usually the last to realise that they have parasites, as successful parasites' actions are below the threshold that would signal danger.

http://amsterdam.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-0211/msg00042.html

SS

thegentleman

Its true of the 5 million plus for foreign aid.. I remember when George Bush Sr. said those infamous words "New World Order".. There are a lot of political action committees in DC and they're all self-serving, thats essentially what they are there for in the first place anyway.. One of the problem has always been if you ever criticize Israel you're labeled as an "Israel-basher " or an "anti-Semite", that is why the politicians are normally afraid to speak their mind in the subject and relent.. They keep quiet because they wont get the contributions anymore...Why they can be critical of France and Germany and other countries that differ in opinion but they rarely open their mouth if they differ on their opinion with Israel? Just a double standard and relenting going on....

DakotaRed

When was it theirs? What about the millions of palestinians that were living there when jews decided it was theirs? About half of the population of jordan is displaced palestinians. Talk is of deporting the rest of them.

SS, try reading the establishment of Palestine, which did not exist prior to fall of the Ottoman Empire at the close of WW1. By the League of nations mandate of the day, everything east of the Jordan River was to be for Jews and everything west, for Arabs. From the time of this mandate to 1967, "Palestinians" under Jordanian control, and also not wanted by Jordanians, never complained about being refugees. But, after the Six Day war, started their cry of refugee.

Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, they have continuoulsy been attacked by neighboring Arab states, begining the very day after the British left the area. Please show me where the Israelis have managed as many attacks against the Arab neighbors.

Look up the establishment of the Jewish and Arab States after the Ottoman Empire and see what really happened.

Satanus

Dakota

I don't know all the details. Details are certainly good to remember. As i understand it, as part of the turkish empire, the arab countries that exist now did not. It was all a big territory, w free movement. Many arabs were nomadic. After the british wrested the area from turkish control, the british drew all the borders in the sand, including those for palestine, and for the part alloted to jews. The jews never respected the borders even for their original mandate. Maybe that provided a hint to the arabs of things to come, and set them off.

SS

Satanus

The reason for the british pulling out was because they were being bombed by the jews, in other words, violently attacked. What message would this send the arabs as to what they might expect?

SS

DakotaRed

The Arabs were provided with a hint of things to come?

1881-1924 2.5 million Jews flee persecution in Eastern European.
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/pale.html

Many migrate to the United States, fewer migrate to Palestine, which is then ruled by the Ottoman Turkish Empire.

1917 British and French forces occupy Greater Palestine. British Government issues Balfour Declaration, promising a Jewish state in Palestine.
http://www.israel.org/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0dt00

Arab riots of 1921, of which the Haycraft Commission declared was instigated by Arabs, and as Arabs were the majority, inflicted the most casualties. 47 Jews killed with 140 wounded.

1922 League of Nations (precursor to the United Nations) and the U.S. Congress, respectively, endorse Balfour declaration promising a Jewish state in Palestine. In 1923, Britain alters the size of the promised Jewish homeland.
http://www.israel.org/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0dt10

Satanus

I will check this over the next couple of days.

SS

DakotaRed

For some reason, all didn’t come through. Here is the rest;

1929, the Hebron massacre, 67 Jews murdered

1936, the British Peel Commission concluded that Arab-Jewish coexistence was impossible and recommended partitioning Palestine into Jewish and Arab areas. The Jews accepted the principle of partition while the Arabs rejected it. From 1936-1939, the Arabs in Palestine revolted against British rule.

1939, Britain issues White Paper reneging on its promise, as expressed in the Balfour declaration, for a Jewish state in Palestine. It was also Great Britain's change in policy toward Palestine, especially in the White Paper, that disallowed millions of European Jews unable to escape from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine.

1933 – 1945, The Holocaust; Arab states and leaders join with Nazi Germany.

1947, UN approves plan to partition Palestine; Jews accept partition, Arabs reject partition and prepare to oppose partition plan by force.
http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/100/maps/part.html

1948, Creation of the State of Israel. United States is the first country to recognize the newly reestablished Jewish state. Immediately, five Arab armies invade fledgling state.
http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/100/maps/invade.html

Ensuing war produced about 500,000 Arab refugees, most of whom fled their homes at the urging of Arab leaders.
http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/100/maps/refuge.html

Nearly 750,000 Jews living in Arab countries are persecuted and nearly all are forced to flee to Israel, where they are accepted.
http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/100/maps/refs.html

With virtually no protest from Palestinian Arabs or international observers, Arab countries occupy lands reserved for a Palestinian state.

We also have the 1956 Sinai War, the 1967 Six Day War, and the 1973 Yom Kippur War, not to mention the murder of the entire Israeli Olympic team in 1972 in Munich Germany by Arabs and several artillery shellings from Arabs prior to the Yom Kippur War and numerous suicide bombings since.

While I don’t see Israel as entirely innocent in all respects, I can understand their dismay with the Arabs and much of the world. Please note, it isn’t the Jews who have vowed to rid the region of Arabs, but Arabs who have vowed to do that to Jews.

The Immorality of Losing

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