Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

by dubstepped 340 Replies latest jw friends

  • WhatshallIcallmyself
    WhatshallIcallmyself

    "evolutionary theory on the other hand have no explanation for a bunch of stuff, like the origin of thought." - HB

    Are you sure? ... Also, you have to remember the explanatory power of evolutionary theory as it exists. You cannot throw the whole concept aside because you have managed to point to something you either do not know or it hasn't yet explained. If that was the case science wouldn't get anywhere because nothing would be considered explained.

    "But u can't equate evolution to something like the standard model bc there are so many things about evolution we still don't know because it happened a billion years ago." - HB

    It is amazing how much of an opinion you can have on something you clearly still do not understand. I'll give a hint: evolution is still happening now... Or are you confusing evolution with origin of life studies?

    The geological landscape formed over billions of years and yet we can still say with certainty how it came about because the same geological processes are still happening now.

  • hothabanero
    hothabanero
    Are you sure?

    Yes I am damn sure. If you somehow know what thought is and how it evolved please submit your ideas to the Nopel prize people and share some of the money with me lol.

    It is amazing how much of an opinion you can have on something you clearly still do not understand.

    lol, like you got a PHD in the standard model! I am a guy who keep myself informed just like you, so what about taking me serious and I will do the same to you ok?

    Or are you confusing evolution with origin of life studies?

    Are you confusing your ass with your elbow?

    The geological landscape formed over billions of years and yet we can still say with certainty how it came about

    Yep, all about geology is known.... it is not like subduction zones are a thing...

  • hothabanero
    hothabanero

    Love the bias by some liberal posters: Just bc I am not a liberal & defend Donald Trump against the very unfair criticism he receives, some of you guys assume I am a moron who believes in creationism and attack me with a bunch of pathetic arguments which just shows you didn't read a single word I wrote to begin with!!

  • cofty
    cofty

    Hothead - Try to stay on-topic and cut down on the ranting.

    please submit your ideas to the Nopel prize people

    I've never heard of the 'Nopel prize'.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Perhaps you could clear up any misunderstanding by stating what things you think we do now for sure about biological evolution.

  • shepherdless
    shepherdless
    @shepherdless: lol, you are applying an ENORMEOUS double standard!
    There are things the standard model does not explain like dark matter and other things that falls outside its scope. but within what it tries to explain it is pretty damn precise. tell me a single experiment that it has failed?
    evolutionary theory on the other hand have no explanation for a bunch of stuff, like the origin of thought.
    so if you want to say the standard model has not been proven beyond reasonable doubt bc it does not explain EVERYTHING (like dark matter), you got to apply the same principle to evolution.

    Well, I won’t get involved in your discussions with others.

    There is no double standard.

    The Standard Model should really explain dark matter. It is supposed to explain all particles. Also, it hasn’t really been verified by that many experiments, as they are expensive, time consuming, and dealing with cutting edge physics.

    The theory of evolution on the other hand, has been verified in countless ways, and there are no longer any mysteries of any significance.

    When I was at University, I remember a chemistry lecturer stating that DNA was always a right hand spiral, and nobody knew why. (I remember at the time that some creationists at the time were making an anti-evolution argument based on a misunderstanding of the second law of thermodynamics, yet on the right hand spiral issue, creationists would have had a legitimate point to raise, but none seemed aware of it.) That mystery has since been solved. I didn’t know it had been solved until I read one of Cofty’s threads.

    Since then, I don’t know of any legitimate argument against evolution. I don’t count appeals to emotion as legitimate arguments. There is plenty of info available about this topic.

    You raise the “origin of thought”. Well, you may have noticed that many more sophisticated animals can apply some very basic abstract thought. Your cat will go to the door, look at you and meow, to go outside. Crows have been shown to be able to count up to 5, etc.

    But why are we far smarter than any animal? The answer is simple. About 1.2 million years ago, a creature known as homo erectus started to learn how to make fire, and not long after, started to learn how to cook with fire. Brains use a lot of energy, and natural selection meant that an animal of any sort tended to have a brain just big enough to allow it to carry out necessary functions. If it had too big a brain, the animal would be at a disadvantage as it would require more food to survive. That changed with the use of fire. Cooked meat gives about 20% more energy (and is safer); many vegetables release more energy after being cooked. Food could be stored. Suddenly, a creature such as homo erectus had a massive advantage if it had a bigger brain, and had abstract thinking ability. The species spread across a large part of the planet; it was the second most successful hominid (apart from ourselves) in colonising the planet. One branch of homo erectus got even better at abstract thinking, and was our ancestor.

    I hope that answers your question.

  • TD
    TD

    Habanero,

    you can't compare this to something like thought where scientist have no flipping clue how it even works much less explain how it got to be like it is.

    I'm not making the comparison at all. The origin and nature of sentient intelligence is a separate area of inquiry entirely and (as you allude to above) is not fully understood either

    It sounds like you're asking for something closely akin to unification.

    Look, electrical theory is not junk science simply because we are not yet able to unify the electromagnetic, weak and strong interactions into a single force.

    Similarly, organic evolution is not junk science simply because we are not yet able to unite related areas of inquiry under the same umbrella.

    Like I pointed out, the theory is an attempt to explain the phenomenon and not the other way around. It is a fact that animal populations change and it is a fact that new species emerge via natural forces. This directly contradicts the static model preached by JW's and kindred groups.

    If you want to adopt a more liberal view and accept the reality of evolution while still believing that God had his finger in the pie here and there, I don't think anyone would think less of you. Lots of Christians hold that view.

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic
    you can't equate evolution to something like the standard model bc there are so many things about evolution we still don't know because it happened a billion years ago.

    Well evolution certainly happened in the past. But it's still going on to this very day. And will continue going on in the future.

    Scientific theories explain how things work. To give you an example, we can use the theory of gravity to explain the orbital mechanics of our solar system. But me simply saying, "well we don't know what the solar system looked 4 billion years ago - therefore the theory of gravity is incomplete" - is not a valid premise.

    Because scientific theories are not bodies of knowledge. Rather, they are a tool we use to get knowledge. They are a way of thinking. Scientific theories are a way of explaining and making predictions about the phenomenon we observe in our universe.

    Or, to put it more concisely - they describe how things happen. And in the case of evolution - it describes the process of speciation through genetic mutation and selection. It describes how species change over time. Not every event along the way.

  • hothabanero
    hothabanero

    Cofty, first try:

    I've never heard of the 'Nopel prize'.

    BRAVO! nitpicker. Mind going back to the topic?

    Cofty, second try:

    Perhaps you could clear up any misunderstanding by stating what things you think we do now for sure about biological evolution.

    I'll get right on that after you state what things we know for sure about chemistry bro!

    You do know evolution is kind of a big research area, like thousands and thousands of scientific articles.

    If you are trolling me then just hop along troll... otherwise, seriously, you think everything we know for sure about evolution can fit into a single post??? (I am asking you in all honesty bc I thought you knew more about evolution than that!)

    @Shepherdless:

    The Standard Model should really explain dark matter. It is supposed to explain all particles.

    Alternatively, the standard model is trying to explain .. I don't know .. the forces and particles that are actually in the standard model???

    The theory of evolution on the other hand, has been verified in countless ways, and there are no longer any mysteries of any significance.

    incredibly silly thing to say. You don't think the origin of thought is a serious scientific question? you don't think there is more to explore within evolution?

    Do you wonder what evolutionists do their research about?

    Anyway my point: with regards to the standard model, you assume it cannot be known to have been confirmed unless it explains EVERYTHING. With evolution, you give it a pass even though there is a ton of stuff we still don't know.

    you see the problem?

    According to your way of thinking, newtonian mechanics or relativity are not true beyond all reasonable doubt either... so yah, we are back to relativism where nothing is really true lol.


  • hothabanero
    hothabanero

    @TD

    Similarly, organic evolution is not junk science simply because we are not yet able to unite related areas of inquiry under the same umbrella.

    I never said evolution is junk science, I believe in evolution FFS.

    Don't read what other assume about me but what I say. I said at the outset there was things we don't know about darwinism(=evolution) and things we knew.

    Then Cofty jumped on top of me and said darwinism wasn't a thing.

    Then I posted a link to wikipedia which said otherwise.

    Then cofty got ridiculous and said he knew better than wikipedia (yah that actually happened)

    Then he asked me what we didn't know about evolution.

    Then I wrote a list.

    Then cofty got even more silly and of it went from there and all of a sudden I am made into a creationist...

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