VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter 271 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo
    Scholar:
    Utter nonsense. The clay tablet notwithstanding its provenance is open to interpretation and to translation. There are at least four translations in English from the original German article and this tablet has been rigorously examined by Dr Rolf Furuli who is an expert in the Akkadian language
    using several different astro programs concluded that Neb's 37th year was in 588 BCE rather than the widely accepted date of 568 BCE which of course validates 607 BCE as the only possible date for the Fall of Jerusalem.
    Jeffro on his blogs simply provides his interpretation of the astronomical data in the tablet and there is another website that also provides an alternative interpretation -www. VAT 4956. com
    Yes, this tablet could be a 'smoking gun' in that it affirms 607 BCE rather than the controversial 587 or 586 BCE for the Fall but the 'jury is out' on this matter.

    One of my hobbies is amateur astronomy. I have been interested in it for 40 years. Does that make me a world expert on anything? No. But I am fairly confident in this area and sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer.

    There is a reason the WT over-complicates this subject. Read the 2 part article they wrote about the fall of jerusalem and you will see what I mean. It is designed to make the average person feel that it is a subject that is difficult to understand and its better just to trust that the org has done its research and 607 is right, therefore 1914 is right.

    Forget about lunar eclipses, retrograde motions of planets, full moons in slightly wrong positions. It is all white noise to distract from the obvious. The planet Saturn was in a particular part of the sky in a certain year. It doesnt even matter if it was a little bit in front- or behind. That wont make a difference for the purpose of dating the year. That only happens once every 29.4 years. Its a basic concept and its freely available for anyone to observe. All you have to do is go outside at night and look up. (Except for right now because Saturn is behind the Sun :) )

    The rest of the planetary observations, which are all accurate, are just extra nails in the coffin of the 607 date. The reason its great that Saturn was visible that year is that it is the best planet to use for dating a certain year because of its slow movement through the zodiac.

    Sorry, I said that VAT 4956 casually dismantles 607. I should have said it 'effortlessly' dismantles it.

    As for the website vat4956.com, it agrees with the software I am using. Saturn is in the same positon, slightly behind the swallow (Pisces). When it first became visible, in the morning, earlier in the year it was lined up with Pisces. Here is vat4956.com:

    Here is Sky View Cafe- I have marked the date, the position of Saturn and the co-ordinates of ancient Babylon:

  • KalebOutWest
    KalebOutWest

    Scholar,

    You would like me to post a dissertation of 270+ pages that is written Hebrew here?

    Jewish culteral studies, bubbale. That was some time ago in Tel Aviv. What on earth do you want with that old thing? Do you even know what is on it?

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    jwposter:

    Solomon's Temple was dedicated in 950 BC.

    The historicity of Solomon is debatable, but biblical chronology would put the completion of the temple in 959 BCE.

    Then you have the 390 years of the Kings as spoken of by Ezekiel 4.

    The 390 years began in 929 BCE, and ended in 539 BCE. (Note that the Septuagint version has a different period, which neatly corresponds to the period from the exile of Israelites to Assyria in 732 BCE during Pekah’s reign to the final deportation in 582 BCE referenced in Jeremiah 52:30. This suggests the 390 years was a later edit from the original.) See also 390 days (from review of Pure Worship.)

  • scholar
    scholar

    jwposter

    The historicity of Solomon is debatable, but biblical chronology would put the completion of the temple in 959 BCE.

    --

    False. Solomon's Temple was begun in his fourth year in 1034 BCE and inaugurated in his twelfth year which was 1026 BCE.

    --

    The 390 years began in 929 BCE, and ended in 539 BCE.

    --

    False. The '390 year' period began with the Divided Monarchy in 997 BCE and ended with its end with the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE.

    scholar JW


  • scholar
    scholar

    KalebOutWest

    You would like me to post a dissertation of 270+ pages that is written Hebrew here?

    --

    If it is not in English then do not bother.

    ---

    Jewish culteral studies, bubbale. That was some time ago in Tel Aviv. What on earth do you want with that old thing? Do you even know what is on it?

    --

    Well, the scholarly thing to do with your thesis or dissertation is simply to produce an Abstract in English which should be too difficult if it has any validity in terms of modern scholarship.

    scholar JW


  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    As usual, comments from ‘scholar’ (just parroting Watch Tower Society chronology) can simply be ignored.

  • KalebOutWest
    KalebOutWest

    Why should I, a Jew, whose third language is English, translate a paper from years and years ago out of the language it was primarily written?

    Can't you read Hebrew? I can speak English. And several other languages as well as sign in two different forms of sign language.

    If you are a scholar, why do you need anything translated for you?

  • scholar
    scholar

    joey jojo

    There is a reason the WT over-complicates this subject. Read the 2 part article they wrote about the fall of jerusalem and you will see what I mean. It is designed to make the average person feel that it is a subject that is difficult to understand and its better just to trust that the org has done its research and 607 is right, therefore 1914 is right.

    ---

    I disagree. The WT articles make this complex subject accessible to the average reader for anyone can understand the fact of the Jewish Exile of 70 years with the Return of the Jews in 537 BCE beginning their Exile in 607 BCE with the Fall of Jerusalem.

    --

    Forget about lunar eclipses, retrograde motions of planets, full moons in slightly wrong positions. It is all white noise to distract from the obvious. The planet Saturn was in a particular part of the sky in a certain year. It doesnt even matter if it was a little bit in front- or behind. That wont make a difference for the purpose of dating the year. That only happens once every 29.4 years. Its a basic concept and its freely available for anyone to observe. All you have to do is go outside at night and look up. (Except for right now because Saturn is behind the Sun :smile: )

    The rest of the planetary observations, which are all accurate, are just extra nails in the coffin of the 607 date. The reason its great that Saturn was visible that year is that it is the best planet to use for dating a certain year because of its slow movement through the zodiac.

    --

    Not so for the planetary observations are subject to interpretation and translation and according to Furuli's research on the planetary observations "is absolutely clear that most of them do not fit the year 588/587, if the readings of N/W and S/H are correct. But N/W and S/H will have us believe that the positions fit perfectly the year 568/67 with one or two exceptions (Refer p.308) In his conclusion of his massive study he states "Because so many of the planetary positions are approximately correct, but not completely correct, there are good reasons to believe that they represent backward calculations by an astrologer who believed that 568/67 was the year 37 of NebuchadnezerII. Thus the lunar positions seem to be original observations from 588/587, and the planetary positions are backward calculations for the positions of the planets in 568/567 (Refer pp. 324-325)".

    ---

    As for the website vat4956.com, it agrees with the software I am using. Saturn is in the same positon, slightly behind the swallow (Pisces). When it first became visible, in the morning, earlier in the year it was lined up with Pisces. Here is vat4956.com:

    --

    Excellent but Jeffro is not happy with this website.

    scholar JW

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    As usual, comments from ‘scholar’ (just parroting Watch Tower Society chronology) can simply be ignored.

    --

    As usual comments by Jeffro just parroting his own amateurish research can simply be ignored with the exception of his pretty coloured charts which the said scholar enjoys.

    scholar JW

  • scholar
    scholar

    KalebOutWest

    Why should I, a Jew, whose third language is English, translate a paper from years and years ago out of the language it was primarily written?

    Can't you read Hebrew? I can speak English. And several other languages as well as sign in two different forms of sign language.

    If you are a scholar, why do you need anything translated for you?

    -

    All that is asked of you is to simply post an Abstract for that should not be to difficult unless your thesis is nonsense?

    scholar JW

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