VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter 271 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Me:

    So we can only conclude that the tradition about the day of atonement is just wrong.

    That statement was intentionally glib because I didn’t feel like going down this particular rabbit hole that is ultimately based on unverifiable traditions and cannott be relied upon as historical.

    But… if it is assumed that the story about Zechariah were on the day of atonement in the 8th course in 6 BCE (24 October), then the priest courses would actually match up for the first course on 30 August 70 CE. With a subsequent period of at least 15 months for Elizabeth’s 6 months and Mary’s pregnancy, that would place Jesus’ birth in… 4 BCE. (That would be a few months before Jesus’ presumed birth possibly around October; however it is also only tradition that Mary immediately became pregnant when visited by the ‘angel’, which is not stated in the story.)

    Of course, it can’t be stressed enough that we don’t really know the actual circumstances of Jesus’ birth or death (beyond that he was probably executed), all of which is only in stories written many years later.

  • jwposter
    jwposter

    As historical researchers know (and the Jewish Encyclopedia), the Jews use to observe the Sabbaths according to the Lunar weeks and not according the solar weeks. This means there is 49 weeks of rotation in a year. And they observed these weeks from Sabbath to Sabbath. These courses observed their courses unbroken in order. This is not to say they didn't observe at some points as certainly they couldn't but when they resumed they resumed in the order they would be at - had the rotation always been in place. This would be the same with Sabbaticals and Jubilees. The Day of Atonement would be 9/30 in 4 B.C.E having started the evening before.

    It is important to note that the Jews, observed the New Moons, their first day of the week was the 2nd Day of the Month when the Crescent would be observed. Therefore, the Sabbaths were the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and the 29th of the month. You won't find the weekly sabbaths on other days. These corresponded with the phases of the moon.

    Therefore, knowing this you will see that a Sabbath can fall on any day of the solar week.

    Also, knowing this you will realize that the Feasts of Unleavened Bread is ALWAYS a High Sabbath as it always falls on the Weekly Sabbath day.

    Now knowing this you can count the sabbaths correctly to Pentecost because it is NOT 50 consecutive days. But the count begins on the 16th day of the first Lunar Month and is counted by Weekly Sabbaths onto 7 weeks and then 1 days is added. This will always bring you to the 9th day of the 3rd month. You may wonder then why we count it? Because we are being taught to count down the Jubilees. Remember, that man only gets 120 Jubilees (Genesis 6:3).

    Hippolytus shows this in his commentary on the Psalms.

    “Let us inquire, further, why there are one hundred and fifty psalms. That the number fifty is sacred, is manifest from the days of the celebrated festival of Pentecost, which indicates release from labors, and (the possession of) joy. For which reason neither fasting nor bending the knee is decreed for those days. For this is a symbol of the great assembly that is reserved for future times. Of which times there was a shadow in the land of Israel in the year called among the Hebrews “Jobel” (Jubilee) which is the fiftieth year in number, and brings with it liberty for the slave, and release from debt, and the like. …Thus, then, it was also meet that the hymns to God on account of the destruction of enemies, and in thanksgiving for the goodness of God, should contain not simply one set of fifty, but three such, for the name of Father, and Son, and Holy Spirit. The number fifty, moreover, contains seven sevens, or a Sabbath of Sabbaths; and also over and above these full Sabbaths, a new beginning, in the eight, of a really new rest that remains above the Sabbaths.”

    So now, you can see that the Pentecost shows us to count down Jubilees. But how many days you may say it is from Pentecost to the Day of Atonement when the Jubilee is sounded? - 120.

    These are lunar months and each has on average 29.5 days. So from the 9th day of the 3rd month to the end of the month we have 21 days. For months 4-6 we have (29.5 * 3 = 88.5 days) and for the 7th month till the 10 day (Day of Atonement) we have 10.5 days.

    Do the math 21 + 88.5 + 10.5 = 120 days.

    Now the 60th Jubilee was when the Temple of Solomon was dedicated. If we go from that 9th day of the 3rd month and go 60 days we land on the 10th of the 5th month. That is the day in which the Temple was destroyed.

    All these mysteries are for the wise to understand.

    Dan_12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

  • jwposter
    jwposter

    Just to clarify my last post. There are 49 weeks of the courses in a SOLAR year. That is important to know when trying to go back in time and look at which course may have been serving on a particular week.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Your ‘understanding’ of the concept of sabbaths is (intentionally) overcomplicated and wildly inaccurate. Who fed you that nonsense?

    jwposter:

    As historical researchers know (and the Jewish Encyclopedia), the Jews use to observe the Sabbaths according to the Lunar weeks and not according the solar weeks.

    The Jewish Encyclopaedia explicitly contradicts your claims, clearly stating what is obvious to anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of the subject: The sabbath is every seventh day. The closest the Jewish Encyclopaedia gets to your ‘lunar weeks’ drivel is that the practice could possibly have originally developed in relation to lunar cycles among early nomadic Semites prior to Jewish settlements. More likely, also explained in the Jewish Encyclopaedia, is that it was probably adapted from Assyro-Babylonian practices.

    Please just go away.

  • jwposter
    jwposter

    And for anyone that may wonder if Sabbaths could have really been according to the Lunar Phases of the moon. See page 410 here:

    https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Universal_Jewish_Encyclopedia/OrttAAAAMAAJ?q=410&gbpv=1#f=false

  • jwposter
    jwposter

    What is always interesting is the response you get from those that believe the Sabbaths were based on solar days of the week when you ask a question in regards to the following:

    Ezekiel 46:1,3

    Thus saith the Master YHWH; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the Sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the New Moon it shall be opened. Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before YHWH in the Sabbaths and in the New Moons

    The question for those that believe the Sabbaths were always on solar day is what do you do if the Sabbath falls on the day of the new moon?

    Of course those that know that the sabbaths are pertaining the the phases of the moon have no difficultly with that answer.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    jwposter:

    The question for those that believe the Sabbaths were always on solar day is what do you do if the Sabbath falls on the day of the new moon?

    In both cases the door was to be opened so it’s pretty obvious. 🤦‍♂️ But maybe in your addled mind there would be some overly complicated procedure of opening the door twice. 🤷‍♂️🤣

    But the Jews do have provisions for if things like temple duties etc fall on a sabbath. There’s no ‘gotcha’ here.

    There’s no such thing as ‘solar weeks’.
  • jwposter
    jwposter

    So if you said that it is was ok for the Sabbath to fall on the new moon then your affirming a belief that the sabbaths are not bound by the moon. In such cases then if the moon falls on the 5th day of the week, you are stuck in what to do with the doors.

    The Jews needed the moon in order to observe the Sabbath day.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    jwposter:

    So if you said that it is was ok for the Sabbath to fall on the new moon then your affirming a belief that the sabbaths are not bound by the moon.

    Duh.

    if the moon falls on the 5th day of the week, you are stuck in what to do with the doors.

    No, it quite clearly says to open the door on the new moon, overriding the directive to usually close the door. It’s not complicated. Are you dim?

    The Jews needed the moon in order to observe the Sabbath day.

    No, they just needed to be able to count to 7. They had that covered.

    This nonsense you’re peddling is fringe 20th century Adventist drivel. Just stop.

  • jwposter
    jwposter

    From Clement of Alexandria:

    In periods of seven days the moon undergoes its changes. In the first week she becomes half moon; in the second [week], full moon; and in the third [week], in her wane, again half moon; and in the fourth [week] she disappears. In vol. 6, chapter 16 of The Stromata

    Neither worship as the Jews…[for] if the moon is not visible, they do not hold the Sabbath, which is called the first; nor do they hold the new moon, nor the feast of Unleavened Bread, nor the Feast, nor the Great Day.’ In The Stromata ch.5

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