why celebrate xmas?

by enoughisenough 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  enoughisenough

  jhine, I grew up celebrating xmas. I took part in the church "pageants"...The way it was and still is depicted in nativity scenes is the babe in a manger and the animals and the wise men there with the STAR above. I also recall Santa being in the church and giving out candy. Matt 2 makes it plain the star didn't first lead to a manger but to King Herod who wanted to kill Jesus. When the "wise men" found Jesus, he was a young child in a house, not a babe in a manger as depicted in the church programs. The wise men ( magi or astrologers ) didn't report back to Herod because they were warned in a dream. Joseph took the family to Egypt because of a dream. Herod killed all baby boys in the districts from age 2 and under trying to make rid of Jesus.

  peaceful pete, my view isn't sectarian bigotry of the WT, but from what/how I understand the story of Jesus birth as written in the Bible. Even without "pagan" background celebrations, the story isn't depicted correctly,
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  Ding

  Given that Romans 14 says that it's up to the individual what days to celebrate or not celebrate, I never could understand why the WT made such a big deal about holidays, including Christmas.

  Now I understand that it's all about a much larger program of thought and behavior control.
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  LongHairGal

  ENOUGH IS ENOUGH:

  Many ex-JWs don’t celebrate Christmas because they never did when they were children and that’s fine. My family did so I have happy memories.

  Some, like yourself, say it’s ‘pagan’ and you want to serve God in ‘spirit and truth’. A lot of Witnesses think they are purists with regard to their religion. First of all, many things have pagan origin (the calendar for one). You’d have to get off the planet to escape it. But, remember, the JW religion differs for the sake of being different!.. Just because they got rid of the statues, don’t celebrate the holidays and call their building a kingdom hall instead of a ‘church’ doesn’t necessarily mean their beliefs are correct.

  With regard to Christmas and the holidays: I believe the religion does not want their followers to celebrate them because they do NOT want them associating with non-JW families and friends.. In my opinion, they are afraid once JWs experience real love and friendship with people who are not judging them - they may not want the religion anymore!

  In my case, they made a real effort back in the day to get me to stop my associating with relatives & people not in the JW religion. Meanwhile, I had no real friends at the hall..I had a rude awakening one holiday season when I was left alone staring at four walls. Believe me, I hold this against them almost as much as them knocking me for having my job!.. All this was intended to isolate me.

  That’s why when I ‘Faded’ years ago the first thing I did was send out Christmas cards and rekindled old relationships before it was too late!
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  peacefulpete

  enough...you do know the two stories in Matt and Luke are incompatible and that they reflect just 2 of any number of Jesus birth traditions. The church Xmas nativity stories today in the Western Christian tradition are an attempted blending of the two. The Greek Orthodox tradition however maintains Jesus was born in a cave. In this they agree with Justin Martyr and Origen who both said a cave in Bethlehem was the site of Jesus' birth. The Protoevangelium also testifies to this early tradition. Emperor Hadrian even went and leveled the site because first century Christians were making pilgrimages to the cave. Ascension of Is has him born in a house like Matt..

  Then we have Ignatius, the supposed first attestation of Matt, he has a very different version of the star story where Jesus IS the star.

  Now the virginity of Mary was hidden from the Prince of this world, as was also her offspring, and the death of the Lord; three mysteries of renown, which were wrought in silence by God. How, then, was He manifested to the world? A star shone forth in heaven above all the other stars, the light of which was inexpressible, while its novelty struck men with astonishment. And all the rest of the stars, with the sun and moon, formed a chorus to this star, and its light was exceedingly great above them all. And there was agitation felt as to whence this new spectacle came, so unlike everything else above. Hence every kind of magic was destroyed, and every bond of wickedness disappeared, ignorance was removed, and the old kingdom abolished, when God appeared in human form [or revealed himself in a human manner] for the renewal of eternal life.
  Ignatius, Letter to the Ephesians 19
  

  We haven't even started on this topic, but my point is that there simply wasn't the a singular tradition about Jesus' birth in the earliest Christian records. No one appears to be fixated or maybe even aware of the contradictory birth narratives in Matt and Luke.
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  jhine

  Enough l and all my church friends ar well aware of all that. Nativity scenes simply condense it all into one scene.

  Jan
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  Lost in the fog

  Well I grew up inside the religion so I had no experience of celebrating it and the WT told you to steer clear of all the things associated with it because of its pagan origins. I remember talks full of big long quotes out of "The Two Babylons" book by Alexander Hislop (which was also full of ludicrous assumptions and tenuous connection to myths.)

  But as I live in the Northern Hemisphere when winter nights are dark and cold, I personally used to be cheered up walking home from the meetings and seeing white lights festooned on deciduous tree branches. It was light in the darkness.

  After I went fully POMO I had no issue sending Christmas cards to friends and acquaintances, or giving a gift to work colleagues to say thank-you for all of their hard work in the year gone past. I enjoyed the mince pies, the works parties with Xmas Fare and the boss buying alcoholic beverages for their staff!

  Was it a rebellion against my JW upbringing? No it wasn't. It was me being a normal human being in the society beyond 'The Society'.

  The early Christian Church celebrated festivals fully aware that they were created to supplant the pagan ones. They simply dedicated the festival to God/Jesus instead of whichever pagan deity had owned the occasion previously. In fact, when you think about it Jehovah Witnesses do the same thing in a similar way. They buy an old church or church hall, strip it out and convert it into a kingdom hall. Then they have (in our case it was someone over from the Bethel) to give a Dedication Talk and rededicate the building "to the worship of Jehovah God in the local community". So what's the difference I ask you?

  And finally, Bro CT Russell had no issue with celebrating Christmas. In the December 1, 1904 WT magazine, Page 3468, this is what he wrote:

  

  The way I see it, I have no problems joining in and celebrating a joyous and bright festival in the middle of a dark, dismal season of the year. If you, for whatever reason, don't wish to that's up to you, but no worries.

  And while I am here "Season's Greetings to Everyone" and wishing us all a happy and healthy New Year 2023 whatever you believe.
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  Queequeg

  Lost In The Fog, I love your post!

  "Was it a rebellion against my JW upbringing? No it wasn't. It was me being a normal human being in the society beyond 'The Society'."

  If someone wants to maintain the "alien resident" JW persona, fine. But I sure as hell have had enough of that.

  I live in an area that gets dark with crazy weather in the winter. These ancient customs developed for a reason, the lights, the evergreens, the festivities. One of the reasons Scandinavian countries are regularly on lists of the happiest people is because they've learned how to turn their crazy winters in to a positive thing.

  Lighten up Enoughisenough. Have some friends over, down some brennivin, and thank Freyja that you are alive! Lol.
  
  
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  truth_b_known

  Something I recently learned is that Christianity is unlike any other religion. This difference even set Christianity apart from the other Abrahamic faiths of Judaism and Islam. Christianity is a religion based on belief and not on practice. Even practicing Jews have learned to answer "What do you believe" when asked by Christians because originally the question was a foreign concept.

  We find in the Gospels that there are many differences in what the Jews of Jesus' day believed. Some, like the Sadducees, believed there were no spirit creatures other than God and there was no resurrection. The Pharisees on the other hand did believe in angels and a resurrection. They all offered sacrifices to God at the temple. They all attending the synagogue to listen to the law being read. They all obeyed the Sabbath. That was their practice. Because religion is a practice...unless you are a Christian. Then it is all about belief.

  The first Christians were practicing Jews who added Jesus' teachings to their practice. This practice evolved even in the New Testament. The New Testament and the entire Bible stops, but Christianity kept evolving. Those changes are recorded, but just not in the Bible.

  Those who are obsessed with trying to recreate the original Christian congregation fail. Those original 11 Apostles + Matthias changed their beliefs and practices. The Apostles who replaced those 12 Apostles did so likewise. They had to. As a religion grows its membership the religion natural changes.

  To begin with the premise that 1) If it is not in the Bible it is not true and 2) If the Bible does not command/sanction something it is unacceptable practice to God is a logical fallacy. There are many recordings by Christians of the 1st and 2nd centuries of how they practiced.

  Do you object to the celebration of wedding anniversaries? Do you object to the wearing of wedding rings? These are practices of a non-Judeo-Christian origin. So are these "pagan" practice that should be avoided?

  Finally, read only the teachings of Jesus. Jesus on several occasions rebuked the religious leaders of the true religion of the day, Judaism, because they were concerned with rules and regulations rather than carrying for others and being content with basic necessities.
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  just fine

  I don’t celebrate Christmas as Christ’s birthday. I celebrate secularly because it’s fun to see my nieces/nephews children enjoy all of the fun of the season. I love to see their eyes light up when you are able to get them something they are dreaming of.

  I love them all so much - I don’t care what they celebrate. If it’s important to them it’s important to me. If they said they are celebrating Christmas,Hanukkah or The Flying Spaghetti Monster - My answer would be when/where/ and how do we throw this party. For me it doesn’t have to be some big theological debate - it’s fun so I do it.
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  Vanderhoven7

  Going caroling tonight at a seniors residence and giving a talk on, "If Jesus hadn't come..." We have visited 3 different residences already and shared the story and meaning of Christmas.