Defend Your Borders or Listen to the Watchtower?

by raymond frantz 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    https://youtu.be/dNowW-4Jfao?si=ehzMc5-GXQUkgN7Q

    With WW3 on the horizon the Watchtower is bringing out their best hits on the issue of neutrality and the latest instalment on jw.org with Stephen Lett has the theme " Why ancient Israelites were allowed to go to war but as a Christian you can't " or to paraphrase for a 2024 audience " Why the modern state of Israel is allowed all the nuclear weapons to defend their borders but you as a Western European or North American you aren't supposed to compliant against open border policies and uncontrolled illegal migration" Isn't that the exact same rhetoric or is it my imagination? So one of Stephen Lett's go to arguments is that Christians do not take up arms because we don't live in ancient times where Israelites had a mandate to occupy the Holy Land where as we Gentile Christians we don't. But I'm here to make the exact opposite argument using Scriptures (but before we do that, let’s see what our favourite jw clown has to say...)
    So here are some verses that you won't find in the Watchtower publications to support my argument. The Bible makes it clear that God has established nations and their borders, and defending those borders is part of maintaining the order He set in place. Acts 17:26 states, “And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place.” Notice, God didn’t just create people and let them roam freely without limits—He assigned nations their specific territories and boundaries. These aren’t arbitrary lines; they’re part of God’s divine arrangement.
    Now, here’s where things get tricky. The Watchtower promotes a position of neutrality, insisting that Christians shouldn’t participate in any form of warfare, even if it means defending their homeland. But how does that align with God’s plan for nations to have and maintain their borders? After all, what good is a border if it’s left wide open or undefended? Romans 13:1-4, which they love to quote alot, gives governments the authority to maintain law and order, which would naturally include protecting their borders, right?: “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore, whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed.” Clearly, protecting a nation’s borders is part of the God-given role of governments, and it requires participation from their citizens.
    Let’s not forget Nehemiah’s example. When the Israelites, came back from Babylon and were rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem, their enemies threatened to attack. Did Nehemiah tell everyone to throw up their hands in neutrality? Hardly. Instead, he told them in Nehemiah 4:14, *“Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.”So I say what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Nehemiah understood that defending their territory was essential to preserving their identity and protecting their families. And guess what? God didn’t rebuke them for it.
    But here’s the irony: The Watchtower historically took a strong stance against globalism,not anymore, warning about a “new world order” that seeks to erase borders and create one unified system, much like the Tower of Babel. Genesis 11:4 records the people’s rebellious intent: “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” God’s response? “So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth.” (Genesis 11:8). Clearly, God values diversity and distinct nations, not one centralized global society.
    Yet, by promoting absolute neutrality, the Watchtower’s stance inadvertently aids this very globalist agenda that supposedly opposes. If nations can not defend their borders because their citizens refuse to participate, what’s left to stop a borderless, centralized system? It’s like locking the door to your house, but leaving the keys in the lock—it defeats the purpose.
    Christians are called to be peacemakers, but that doesn’t mean passivity in the face of threats. The Bible shows that defending one’s homeland and borders can be both righteous and necessary. When God establishes nations and boundaries, He expects them to be maintained, not left undefended. By refusing any involvement in defending those borders, the Watchtower’s stance undermines the very order God has set in place. Surely, there’s room for Christians to support the preservation of what God has ordained without compromising their faith.
    Now, having said that, if there was a WW3 in Europe tomorrow will I send my son to die in that war? Absolutely not, modern Western European countries and their North American counterparts have already been taken over by the same globalist elites that will use wars, famines and pestilences to bring about an end to borders and national identities for their precious New World Order. They can achieve that with the blood of their children not mine! So my advise is fo not listen to the Watchtower’s false narrative for neutrality be the master of your security and act in accordance to your local circumstances not those of Stephen Letts.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    The dozen of less people who crave this kind of bunk have so many other places to go. Why are you insistent upon derailing this forum's purpose?

    You 8-10 guys can now give me a negative vote.

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    I'm not quite sure what you mean? What is your ideal post and why?

  • Justaguy
    Justaguy

    Ray, small correction to your post, WW3 has in fact started already, when the russia/ukrain thing kicked off. Its only now reaching full boil

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    @Just a guy, I agree, so far they were fighting a proxy war, but rhe masks gave come off for good now

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    What is interesting is that they have historically only promoted opposition to drafts in Western countries while making allowances for service to the state in others.

  • Riley
    Riley

    The Irony the Watchtower can only exist in secular and free democracies seems to be complete lost on them.

  • Duran
    Duran
    But here’s the irony: The Watchtower historically took a strong stance against globalism,not anymore, warning about a “new world order” that seeks to erase borders and create one unified system, much like the Tower of Babel. Genesis 11:4 records the people’s rebellious intent: “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” God’s response? “So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth.” (Genesis 11:8). Clearly, God values diversity and distinct nations, not one centralized global society.

    You are half right. It was God's intention to hold back/restrain the NWO as far back as the ToB and has been the case up until now during the 7th king. But it has also been God's intention/purpose for the NWO to come about at the right time (God's time for it.). It comes upon in the form as the 8th king. This 8th king is God's means to judge all who claim to believe in him and want to serve him and live under his kingdom, not Satan's.

    The 8th king is the same as the MOL and when the restraint holding back the MOL comes off at God's time for it, then the MOL/8th king will come to power to rule the NWO and under that rule there will be those proving to be God's true people by refusing the 8th king and there will be those that prove they do not belong to God by their supporting the 8th king.

    The 8th king serves as the judgment that comes first on the house of God (his people) and then when Jesus comes after the 8th king (Armageddon) that serves as the judgment that comes upon those who were not obedient to the good news of God.

    [ 17 For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?]

    [ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

    2 Thessalonians 2:4-12;Rev 17:13,17;13:5,7,10;14:6,7,9-12;20:4;7:9,13,14;19:20,21

    _______________

    Ray, small correction to your post, WW3 has in fact started already, when the russia/ukrain thing kicked off. Its only now reaching full boil
    @Just a guy, I agree, so far they were fighting a proxy war, but rhe masks gave come off for good now

    WW3 has to happen to bring about the 8th king/MOL, it is the pretext for the nations to give their power and authority over.

    [United Nations: Guterres warns ‘we are on the edge of an abyss’
    The UN’s chief painted a grim picture of a divided and polarized world and urged solidarity among nations.…The world has never been more threatened or more divided, United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres told nations of the world on Tuesday as he kicked off the 76th General Assembly session, urging all 193 member states to “wake up” and realize that solidarity is the only way out of disaster.]

    [23 “And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up. 24 His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones.] cf. Revelation 17:13,17

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    Duran , I agree with you, the Antichrist is God's punishment for mankind nevertheless his purpose post tower of Babel has been a world of borders and distinct national identities. I find nothing with that. I prefer a world where people are allowed to be part of their local national entity with distinct language ,history and culture, the alternative is the current mess we experience at the moment

  • Duran
    Duran
    the Antichrist is God's punishment for mankind

    Nope, not for all, just upon those that claim to be God's people. Those that do not believe or want to serve God will do just fine under the Antichrist/8th king rule. Their punishment will come from Jesus after the 8th king's rule.

    nevertheless his purpose post tower of Babel has been a world of borders and distinct national identities.

    Nope, that was only to be until during the 7th king rule which is where we are at now. Now the purpose is to be an NWO/8th king rule.

    Read ALL the cited Scriptures.

    I prefer a world where people are allowed to be part of their local national entity with distinct language ,history and culture,

    You can prefer all you want but that was never God's purpose, and he will return it back to his purpose.

    Genesis 11:1-9;Zephaniah 3:8,9

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