“Heaven and Earth will pass away but my words will by no means pass away.”

by Fisherman 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Fisherman

  Salvation and baptism have nothing to do with dates.

  It does when Christians are required to have the same mind. Christianity is not structured for everyone to go around believing and teaching to others whatever Bible interpretation they like. Dates was not the only teachings of CTR either. And, the dates were believed to be true at the time. Obviously you needed to believe all teachings of the org. Or at least submit to the authority of decision makers. 1874 is 101 years earlier than 1975 which ctr miscalculated but was on the right tract. 1975 is 6000 years after the creation of Adam based on 539. So is 607 and 1914 also based on 539. JW discarded the cross and other beliefs they later realized were false but the dates you mentioned are still significant 1874 was adjusted for the zero year and the 100 year error. There is a human element and tolerance in all of this which don’t nullify the truth of JW beliefs.

  Also, at the time the JW were “Bible STUDENTS” which implies that they were only learning. —And doing it in an orderly way.
  
  
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  Vanderhoven7

  Fisherman

  What Bible verse makes you say dates are important for Christians to believe? I'm not sure but I think it was 606 that was changed to 607 because of the zero year to maintain the 1914 date. They pulled 1918 and 1919 and 1925 out of their hats and later they changed the date of the first resurrection from 1888 to 1918 and then to sometime before 1935 but still possibly 1918.

  It is wrong to conclude that Jehovah's Witnesses believe the same things. They can differ on things the WTS decides are conscience matters. So why not make these dates conscience matters as well and only insist on uniformity when it comes to essential matters.

  BTW I'd like your reaction to the AZ video I posted this morning.
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  doubtfull1799

  Today, JW claim to have authority from God which gives them jurisdiction on qualifications for baptism. If you reject that, it’s up to you

  Just because they CLAIM authority doesn't mean they have it. Show me the paperwork? I never saw any documentation from God appointing them to a position of authority???

  JW interpretations and claims haven’t been debunked. 1914 adds up and there is evidence JW publish to support it.

  Are you serious? JW chronology & theology has been thoroughly debunked over and over again. Even a cursory bit of research outside JW sources would show you that.

  For example back in the 1 century the apostles had authority from God.

  Who says - just because it's written in a book? Again, show me the paperwork! Miracles you say? How do we know they happened. Do you have any documented proof other than hearsay testimony (which is all the Bible accounts are as the gospels were not written by eyewitnesses) This kind of testimony would never hold up in court so how does it prove authority?

  Oh and by the way, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that the Apostle John wrote Revelation - he didn't. It was another John. Do some research... please...

  
  
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  Fisherman

  What Bible verse makes you say dates

  
  Luke 21:24,Rev 12:7-10,Dan 4:25 are all referring to the year 1914, the year Jesus began ruling as king—as JW see it and JW are required to agree with the belief. If you don’t, you are not a JW and if you are not a JW you are not a Christian.

  I'm not sure but I think it was 606 that was changed to 607 because of the zero year to maintain the 1914 date

  No. There is no zero AD year and that year needed to be factored in which at first they didn’t realize it.
  
  

  
  
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  Earnest

  Fisherman : ... JW are required to agree with the belief. If you don’t, you are not a JW and if you are not a JW you are not a Christian.

  I think it would be more accurate to say that JW can doubt this belief but cannot promote such doubts and remain a JW.
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  waton

  jws are required to believe the current official doctrine, The official stance can lead to reversals of the "truth" taught. see the tacking sailboat illustrating by the wt writer Karl. Klein. and

  as an example the wt understanding of the superior Authorities. Reversing course against the teaching of the prevailing wind, "pneuma" aka H. S.

  This is unlike the scientific process, wt does not propose theories that can make valid predictions, that can be, and are falsified, again and gain. Not theories, edicts with the death penalty attached.
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  Vanderhoven7

  Fisherman

  Luke 21:24,Rev 12:7-10,Dan 4:25 are all referring to the year 1914, the year Jesus began ruling as king—as JW see it and JW are required to agree with the belief. If you don’t, you are not a JW and if you are not a JW you are not a Christian.

  Poor Charlie Russell was not a Christian then since he believed Christ began ruling in 1878.

  Actually these verses teach that you can't be a Christian if you don't believe Christ's invisible presence began in 1934.

  So all JWs are not Christians.

  Unfortunately, only those who believe in 1934 will survive Armageddon.

  There is no zero AD year and that year needed to be factored in which at first they didn’t realize it.

  Yes and that's why 606 was changed to 607 to maintain the erroneous 1914 date.
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  TonusOH

  Christianity is not structured for everyone to go around believing and teaching to others whatever Bible interpretation they like.

  But that is the history of Christianity. Dozens (or hundreds, or even thousands depending on who you ask) of denominations exist because people interpreted the Bible a certain way and taught that to others. Those differences are significant enough to have led to centuries of bloodshed between people who all called themselves Christian.
  
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  Ding

  I never cease to marvel at how many so-called experts in eschatology (including, but not limited to Russell) forgot there was no year 0.

  They all had to change their calculations by one year.

  Then when their predictions still came to nothing, they came up with a new set of calculations and announced a different date.

  Never mind.

  New light.
  
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  Vanderhoven7

  Fisherman

  There was nothing salvific about believing in 1874, nor is there anything salvific about believing in 1914.

  What is salvific is knowing the Father and the Son through repentance and faith.

  People were saved and sanctified long before Watchtower came up with 1874 and 1914.

  Neither do we serve God by believing in a date.