Encouraging scriptures for the day

by Kosonen 543 Replies latest jw friends

  • BoogerMan
    BoogerMan

    @ Kosonen: Clinging to the org's false dogma that Jesus' words at Matthew 24:14 & Mark 13:10 have a "greater fulfilment" 2000 years later, is being self-deceptive.

    1) The "good news" (gospel) about Jesus & the kingdom was preached - in the 1st century:

    (Colossians 1:23) "....not being shifted away from the hope of that good news that you heard and that was preached in all creation under heaven...."

    (1 Timothy 3:16) ‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in the world, was received up in glory.’

    Who exactly did Jesus commission to carry out that 1st century "worldwide preaching work?"

    (Acts 1:2,4,6,8,-9) "....after he had given instructions through holy spirit to the apostles he had chosen. While he was meeting with them, (the apostles) he ordered them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, So when they (the apostles) had assembled, they (the apostles) asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”...But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you (the apostles) will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.” After he had said these things, while they (the apostles) were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their sight."

    Yup - the 11 apostles + Paul - not rank & file Christians.

    2) The events which Jesus described in Matthew 24, were a one-off, things which Jesus said would never be repeated: (Matthew 24:21) "...for then there will be great tribulation..., no, nor will occur again."

    Which part of "no, nor will occur again" was so difficult for us as JW's to understand? 🤔

    3) As for the "last days," Christ revealed to the apostle John who would be assigned to inform & warn the world at that time. It certainly wasn't going to be any corrupted Christian denomination's responsibility:

    Revelation 11:3, 7 - I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth.” When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them."

    Revelation 14:6, 7 - "And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. He was saying in a loud voice: “Fear God and give him glory."

    Neither of these inspired accounts point to any human organization's involvement - especially not JW's.


  • Queequeg
    Queequeg

    "Narcissism falls along the axis of what psychologists call personality disorders . . . but by most measures, narcissism is one of the worst, if only because the narcissists themselves are so clueless."

    - Jeffrey Kluger

  • Kosonen
    Kosonen

    BoogerMan, I can agree with you on some points.

  • Kosonen
    Kosonen

    Philippians 1:16 True, some are preaching the Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter are proclaiming the Christ out of love, for they know that I have been appointed to defend the good news; 17 but the former do it out of contentiousness, not with a pure motive, for they are intending to create trouble for me in my prison bonds. 18 With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing,

    According to apostle Paul’s fine example, we should rejoice over everyone who preaches about Jesus, no matter if they are our friends or enemies. Because what is more important is that Jesus becomes known to the whole world. Then he can come and judge the world.

  • Nikolaus
    Nikolaus

    Those scriptures do not encourage me.

  • PioneerSchmioneer
    PioneerSchmioneer

    Kosonen:

    Philippians 1:16-18 does not (and cannot possibly) mean what you wrote. Your interpretation would cause Paul’s arguments to implode in on themselves.

    What the apostle is talking about was his imprisonment and how it sparked opposite reactions. Some were emboldened to defend the gospel in the same way Paul did, (1:14) but some were stumbled by what had happened to Paul. An apostle in prison? So they were using this opportunity to try to worsen Paul’s hardship and undermine his ministry. (1:15) Some of these individuals were already in a competition with the apostle and so were all too eager to see Paul’s joy dampen, which Paul was not going to let happen, no matter what.--1:18.

    Yet it is very important to realize that none of these other preachers, no matter how insincere they were, taught false doctrines. They were merely in competition with Paul or challenged his claim to being a chosen apostle since his call came after the initial Twelve. Paul would never rejoice in the spread of a false gospel or false doctrine.--See Gal. 1:7-8.

    Therefore Kosonen’s above posting is not correct. As usual it is just a rerun of Watchtower teaching which takes no account of the context of the writing in which the verse appears or any methodology, such as having a basic knowledge of Pauline theology.

  • PioneerSchmioneer
    PioneerSchmioneer

    Kosonen:

    Do you truly follow your own encouragement and teachings? Is it good to promote anything that talks about Jesus?

    According to many Christians, there are several books in the Old Testament canon which are supposed to be there but the Jehovah’s Witnesses do not accept as inspired. Some of these books, like the Wisdom of Solomon and Sirach actually have prophecies foretelling the arrival of the Messiah.

    The Wisdom of Solomon has a very detailed prophecy about how the Messiah will be rejected by his own people and what type of reasoning they will use to do it, and the Sirach has a prophecy spoken of in the gospels that says that Elijah will return before the day of judgement, giving us insight as to why the disciples of Jesus ask at Mt 17:10 & Mk 9:11: “Why do the scribes [plural] say that Elijah must come first?” instead of saying: "Why does Malachi say...?" The other "scribe" they are referencing is obviously Sirach, which has been preserved in the Septuagint to this day.

    They were accepted by the Church Fathers and are still accepted by the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and Episcopal Churches (as well as some Protestant groups outside of Fundamentalism).

    The texts are as follows:

    The Messianic Rejection Prophecy

    “Let us lie in wait for the righteous man,/because he is inconvenient to us and opposes our actions;/he reproaches us for sins against the law/and accuses us of sins against our training,/He professes to have knowledge of God/and calls himself a child of the Lord./He became to us a reproof of our thoughts;/the very sight of him is a burden to us,.because his manner of life is unlike that of others/and his ways are strange./We are considered by him as something base,/and he avoids our ways as unclean;/ he calls the last end of the righteous happy/and boasts that God is his father./Let us see of his words are true,/and let us test what will happen at the end of his life;/ for is the righteous man is God’s son, he will help him/and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries./Let us test him with insult and torture,/that we may find out how gentle he is/and make trial of his forebarance./Let us condemn him to shameful death/for, according to what he says, he will be protected.”

    --The Wisdom of Solomon 2:12-20, ESV Catholic Edition

    Elijah to Return Before the Day of Judgement

    Then the prophet Elijah arose like a fire,/ and his word burned like a torch…
    You who were taken up by a whirlwind of fire/in a chariot with horses of fire;/ you who are ready at the appointed time, it is written,/to calm the wrath of God before it breaks out in furry,/ to turn the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob. Blessed are those who saw you/ and those who have been fallen asleep in love;/ for we also shall surely live.

    --Wisdom of Sirach 48:1, 9-11, ESV Catholic Edition

    Again, the text from Sirach is so very important to Christianity as it fills us in on who Jesus’ apostles were talking about when they use the term “scribes” in the plural, referencing those who foretell the coming of Elijah before the Messiah. It also confirms the idea of life coming to people at the time of his return.

    Of interest is that this book is rejected by those who produced the New World Translation.

    Even more shocking is the details found in the Messianic Rejection prophecy in the Wisdom of Solomon. Composed no later than 100 BCE, the text description of “righteous man” who “professes to have knowledge of God,” who “calls himself a child of the Lord,” and is disliked for reproving this group that claims he “boasts that God is his father,” ends up being persecuted, violently tortured merely because he is a ‘righteous man” who “is God’s son.” The descriptions are hard not to connect with the Passion accounts found in all four gospels.

    Again this book which is found in most major mainstream Bible versions such as the NRSV and ESV, but is also rejected by the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    So, Kosonen, what do you say? Shouldn’t we embrace these books as inspired since they clearly talk about Jesus and carry signs of inspiration and were accepted by the earliest Christians. Why aren’t you accepting them and using Bible translations with a fuller canon? What do you say about these two texts in the Wisdom of Solomon and Sirach?
  • Kosonen
    Kosonen

    It’s the first time I heard what those books say in advance about Christ and Elijah.

    But the essence of those prophecies is very similar to what is already in the canonical Hebrew scriptures. So could it be that the writers of those non canonical books based their writings on those that already existed and just paraphrased what the inspired God’s prophets already had written?

    To my knowledge the Christian Greek Scriptures almost exclusively quote from the canonical Hebrew scriptures. Maybe that was an important criteria in deciding what Hebrew scriptures should be included in the Bible?

    So here is what God’s true prophet Isaiah wrote in advance about Christs sufferings:

    So here is American Standard Version:

    Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed [a]our message? and to whom hath the arm of Jehovah been revealed? 2 For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; [b]and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He was despised, and [c]rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with [d]grief: and [e]as one from whom men hide their face he was despised; and we esteemed him not.

    4 Surely he hath borne our [f]griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Jehovah hath [g]laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    7 He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. 8 [h]By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who among them considered that he was cut off out of the land of the [i]living for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due? 9 And they made his grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in his death; [j]although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

    10 Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath [k]put him to grief: [l]when thou shalt make his soul [m]an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand. 11 [n]He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: [o]by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant [p]justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and [q]made intercession for the transgressors.

    And for comparison the New World Translation: (Can you guess why I prefer this chapter according to the NWT?)

    Isaiah 53:1 Who has put faith in the thing heard from us? And as for the arm of Jehovah, to whom has it been revealed? 2 He will come up like a twig before him, like a root out of parched land. No stately form does he have, nor any splendor; And when we see him, his appearance does not draw us to him. 3 He was despised and was avoided by men, A man who was meant for pains and was familiar with sickness. It was as if his face were hidden from us. He was despised, and we held him as of no account. 4 Truly he himself carried our sicknesses, And he bore our pains. But we considered him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace, And because of his wounds we were healed. 6 Like sheep we have all wandered about, Each has turned his own way, And Jehovah has caused the error of us all to meet up with him. 7 He was oppressed and he let himself be afflicted, But he would not open his mouth. He was brought like a sheep to the slaughter, Like a ewe that is silent before its shearers, And he would not open his mouth. 8 Because of restraint and judgment he was taken away; And who will concern himself with the details of his generation? For he was cut off from the land of the living; Because of the transgression of my people he received the stroke. And he was given a burial place with the wicked, And with the rich in his death, Although he had done no wrong And there was no deception in his mouth. 10 But it was Jehovah’s will to crush him, and he let him become sick. If you will present his life as a guilt offering, He will see his offspring, he will prolong his days, And through him the delight of Jehovah will have success. 11 Because of his anguish, he will see and be satisfied. By means of his knowledge the righteous one, my servant, Will bring a righteous standing to many people, And their errors he will bear. 12 For that reason I will assign him a portion among the many, And he will apportion the spoil with the mighty, Because he poured out his life even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people, And he interceded for the transgressors.

  • Kosonen
    Kosonen

    Just for clarification I want to provide here what Malachi 4 foretold about Elijah so we can compare that with what is written in Wisdom of Sirach 48.

    Malachi 4:1 (ASV) For, behold, the day cometh, it burneth as a furnace; and all the proud, and all that work wickedness, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith Jehovah of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the sun of righteousness arise with healing in its [a]wings; and ye shall go forth, and gambol as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I [b]make, saith Jehovah of hosts.

    4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, even statutes and ordinances. 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah come. 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers [c]to the children, and the heart of the children [d]to their fathers; lest I come and smite the [e]earth with a [f]curse.

  • Kosonen
    Kosonen

    "PioneerSchmioneer: Kosonen’s above posting is not correct. As usual it is just a rerun of Watchtower teaching which takes no account of the context of the writing in which the verse appears or any methodology, such as having a basic knowledge of Pauline theology."

    I think there is a huge difference between me and WT in this instance. WT labels all other Christian organizations who preach about salvation through Jesus as part of the utterly wicked Babylon the Great. But I don't judge them to that extent. I don't belive Babylon the Great applies to any Christian organization which preaches salvation through Jesus Christ.

    But I acknowledge that there is hostility among Christian organizations, but I applaud that they all preach salvation through Jesus Christ. After all every person will do an account for himself before Jesus who will judge as he taught in the parabel about sheep and goats.

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