The August 2024 Watchtower controversy and potential further changes

by ukpimo 100 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  DesirousOfChange

  With all the mergers of congregations in our area, I can't imagine how anyone could keep up with attendance figures.

  We attended the Memorial and I did not know 70% of the others attending. Twenty years ago, I knew nearly everyone in the Circuit. The elders with whom I am well acquainted that had been the shakers-n-movers were not involved unless it was a prayer. The speaker was a 30-something who is new to the area as he married a local JW gal. There appeared to be plenty of 30-something guys who had stepped up into leadership positions. (Not sure that 2/3 of young JWs are abandoning the religion here. * ) At least 50% of the men were sporting beards.

  ( * Hate the new beard policy. Used to be you could see a JW you new on Facebook and if they had a beard then you knew they were inactive or POMO.)
• 

  slimboyfat

  In Scotland some Kingdom Halls have closed (Anniesland and Craigton in Glasgow) but the number of congregations is the same, or is in fact increasing. (Anniesland now meet in Kelvin, not sure about Craigton) For example there have been two congregations in Aberdeen for decades (Deevale and Bucksburn) but recently increased to three (now named North, South, and Central), not to mention the extra Polish congregation, all in the same Kingdom Hall.

  So when you notice Kingdom Halls being sold, are you sure the number of congregations isn’t actually staying the same, or even increasing?
• 

  Bartolomeo

  this map gives an idea of ​​the numbers involved

  https://analytics.jws-library.one/ViewMap.html
  
• 

  Vidiot

  slimboyfat- “…I just said KHs aren’t emptying the way that churches are emptying, that’s all…”

  Agreed.

  The WTS operates differently that most religions, so it stands to reason that if/when it declines, that decline’s gonna look a little different, too.

  For one thing, the Org’ll bust its hump trying to conceal said decline. Regular churches don’t seem to be doing that.
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  So when you notice Kingdom Halls being sold, are you sure the number of congregations isn’t actually staying the same, or even increasing?

  That's definitely the case sometimes when congregations are being forced to move and share another Hall after their Hall is sold. It makes sense to utilize the Hall for 2 or 3 congregations when the travel distance is still reasonable for everyone in all the congregations.

  But there are many congregations being "shut down" or "closed" (ie, for low attendance, lack of leadership) and the publishers there are directed to attend a nearby congregation. That has happened with at least 6 congregations that use our assembly hall. Congregation shut down, publishers reassigned to one or more other existing nearby congregations, and the Hall sold (if they were the only congregation using it). It was small congregations with low attendance and probably low contributions (mostly rural areas) that were merged with other nearby congregations.

  
  
• 

  slimboyfat

  It seems a bit pointless arguing about whether the number of congregations is shrinking when we actually have those numbers available. From what I can remember there has been a small drop in the number of congregations over the past few years but it is a very small drop of around 1 or 2%, and in the latest report the figure is rising again. Some countries had a higher drop than all others, including Germany and the US. Britain is pretty flat.

  Whatever way you look at it, the small drop, or stagnation in the number of JW congregations is nothing compared with mass closure of churches in western countries. Other denominations are talking about the need to close hundreds more congregations (around a third) in the next decade, on top of hundreds of closures that have already taken place.

  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-65645891

  This article says churches are closing so quickly they are struggling to cope with the process while not to lose all the historical items and history inside these buildings as they are converted or demolished.

  https://www.scotlandschurchestrust.org.uk/blog/recording-scotlands-closing-churches/
• 

  Listener

  There’s a new religion which began in 2006. They’ve just built a meeting hall in Greenfields, Western Australia, completed in 2019.

  Their numbers are amazing.

  lt’s penticostal based and they claim 11,000 members in Western Australia as opposed to approximately 7,500 JWs.
• 

  Journeyman

  I'm making a guess based on how they think at Warwick Bethel. Perhaps risky, but plausible.
  ...This is Fantasy Theocracy

  I've heard of Fantasy Football, but not that!

  The Euro 2024 championships are coming up, but maybe after them that's something new to entertain the ex-JWs and PIMOs - pick your own team of GB members and "helpers", select your own set of "new light" doctrines, choose a few themes for the next convention talks and Broadcast videos, and - voila!
  Who will rise up the ladder at Warwick and who will be banished back to their local congregations?
  Which court case will the GB contest next, and will they win or lose?
  What new doctrines or interpretations will the GB have the R&F jumping to understand and follow next?
  Place your bets on... Fantasy Theocracy! 🤣
• 

  ukpimo

  https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-september-2024/

  Just in.

  The September Watchtower study edition is now online.
• 

  Anony Mous

  @slimboyfat, any reduction in congregation is huge as each congregation consists of about 75-100 people. 2% of thousands is a big number, multiplied by 100, that is a ton of people that aren’t being replenished.

  I know back in the day, it was a huge blemish on the reputation of the elders and a scandal if their congregations shut down, as it was almost always for gross misconduct and a loss of blessings was to blame. Every time a congregation closes another 10 or so elders and servants are forever “marked” to many of the older generations.