The August 2024 Watchtower controversy and potential further changes (page 9)

nicolaou

slimboyfat: People always makes [these] assertions on the forum, but I see no evidence for it. Kingdom Halls are pretty full.

How many Kingdom Halls are you visiting Slim'?

Vidiot

jwleaks - “…Something to do with IBSA owning kingdom halls, assembly halls, and branch building assets, and having ownership under various trust names such as The Kingdom Hall Trust…”

Huh. Now, that’s interesting.

’Specially if you take this little revelation into consideration.

JW GoneBad

Slimboyfat says: People always makes there assertions on the forum, but I see no evidence for it. Kingdom Halls are pretty full. There are a few more JWs who stay home and watch on Zoom after the pandemic, mainly older ones, but overall attendance is, if anything, slightly up.

Slim speaks out of both sides of his mouth. He first accuses others of making assertions on this forum about low JW Kingdom Hall attendance. Then Slim makes a wild assertion himself implying Kingdom Halls are full with no evidence to backup his exaggeration. The truth is that large Kingdom Halls that once seated upwards of 200+ people are being sold off due to low meeting attendance and are being replaced with much smaller facilities that seat less than 75 people to give the appearance of full capacity. Another alternative to solving low JW meeting attendance is to merge 4 or 5 surrounding congregations into 3 to 4 congregations, again to give the appearance of full capacity. BTW...many of the Kingdom Halls that are being sold are purchased by other churches that are expanding...go figure!

Another wild assertion Slim makes is that "There are a few more JWs who stay home and watch on Zoom..." The truth is that COs & congregation elders are constantly guilt tripping large numbers of Zoom JWs to get with the program & fill-up the Kingdom Halls. WT even has Tony Morris on a video before he was shit-canned pestering Zoom JW attendees about getting back to in-person meetings.

Another wild assertion Slim makes is that mainly older ones are on Zoom meetings & that overall attendance is, if anything, slightly up. This too is a bunch of bullshit! I have access to several congregation Zoom meeting IDs & pass codes in my neck-of-the-woods. When I visit these different congregations on Zoom the numbers are mostly in the mid to high 30s (often it'll reach 40+) in attendance of all ages, young & old alike...a large number are individuals who are otherwise relatively healthy...many elders & ministerial servants and wives are on Zoom...many healthy pioneers as well...and most everyones' camera is off...I mean Zoom is dark...maybe 1 or 2 cameras are one.

Guaranteed...JW World is having their own pandemic of low numbers & low meeting attendance worldwide!

slimboyfat

How many Kingdom Halls are you visiting Slim'?

In the past year I’ve been in four different Kingdom Halls.

Athanasius

Regarding the delay of the 2024 Watchtower, I tend to agree with others who have posted that the JW leadership is waiting for the outcome of a serious legal issue. The Watchtower has become dependent on Government subsidies and tax exemptions that they will make doctrinal and organizational changes, no matter how radical, in order to keep these monetary benefits.

Though it is speculation on my part, we can expect significant changes in the JW religion as the Watchtower leaders try to implement Governmental demands in order to keep their charitable status.

As to Kingdom Hall attendance, I think this is a local issue. As some have posted, attendance is down. While others have noted that attendance is up. Since it has been almost 40 years since I attended a KH in my area, I have no idea whether attendance is up or down. But I have noticed that while a few local JWs do cart work, I haven't seen JWs engaged in d-d witnessing in our neighborhood in almost 20 years.

slimboyfat

I am just saying what I see. I’ve known the same congregation since the early 1990s. The attendance is down from the peak of the 1990s, for sure, but up a little since before the pandemic. Other congregations nearby seem to be doing fine, plus a few congregations abroad that I know slightly. The Scottish convention had around 8000 in attendance, similar to attendances for the past 30 years or so, not up, but not down either.

I don’t see any evidence of Kingdom Halls “emptying”. But the main reason I find the statement ironic is because churches truly are “emptying” at an astonishing rate. In Scotland alone there are hundreds more churches set for closure in the coming years and many church congregations are down to a handful of old people. One Methodist church I visited had 8 people in attendance, all over 70. A Unitarian church I attended had 13 people, all over 70 except 2 in their 40s. The Christian Science church was down to a handful of old people and closed a few months ago. A Baptist church that once had around 100 on a Sunday was down to 25 when I visited last year. Churches of Scotland are closing all over the country. I attended the Church of Scotland that has the second highest membership remaining in the whole country. They had 80 people in attendance, 90% over 60 years old, and only one child. This is hugely down on attendance before the pandemic when they had around 150 on a Sunday, including some families.

My own firsthand experience is that, in the Kingdom Halls and assemblies/conventions I have seen, the attendances are holding up well, whereas the churches are emptying rapidly.

slimboyfat

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/27/scotland-losing-churches-morham#:~:text=The%20data%20suggests%20Scotland's%20two,only%2060%2C000%20worship%20in%20person.

Congregations are in steep decline, its clergy are ageing and its finances are in disarray. Like hundreds of other churches earmarked for sale, Morham church should be on the market but that has been halted by an unprecedented row over the fate of the nine people interred there more than 300 years ago.

The data suggests Scotland’s two largest Christian faiths, Presbyterianism and Catholicism, may be in terminal decline.
In 1982 the Church of Scotland had nearly 920,000 members; last year, that stood at 270,300, a decline of 70%. The average age of its congregants is now 62, and only 60,000 worship in person.

nicolaou

I don’t see any evidence of Kingdom Halls “emptying”. But the main reason I find the statement ironic is because churches truly are “emptying” at an astonishing rate.

It isn't a level playing field. Churches don't employ coercive control like the JW's do. If folks could leave the Kingdom Hall as freely as others leave the Church, without fear of ostracism, isolation or reputational damage, they would.

slimboyfat

I didn’t say there aren’t reasons, or it is a good thing. I just said KHs aren’t emptying the way that churches are emptying, that’s all.

road to nowhere

The local kingdom hall territory has had 20000(count them] homes added. That means 40000 people divided by 1 in 500 equals 80 new faces. That makes the single hall bursting plus 30 on zoom. And I swear they all own 3 cars apiece.

The door to door still takes place Saturday morning when most people are either working their second job, recreating, or grocery shopping.

The August 2024 Watchtower controversy and potential further changes

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