Elder came...grasped at straws...and left. UPDATE! (page 2)

hippikon

Then I told him that the main reason I didn't think the society was God's channel

Your Toast!

The elder's responses are a great example of adherance to The Fundamental Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses: The Governing Body speaks for God and must always be obeyed as if God were speaking. Corollary is: You don't contradict God or his spokesmen. Under this self-serving bull$hit doctrine, anything can be justified, including calling God a liar -- which is exactly what the elder did, and proves that JWs will contradict even the Bible to prove their faith in the GB.

On the Matthew 24:45-47 thing, you should have told the elder that the point was not about when the "slave" was first supposed to have been appointed, but about the Society's claim that a very special appointment was made in 1919, namely, that Watchtower leaders were appointed over all of Christ's earthly belongings in 1919. Since the verses before and after these are yet future, it is pure special pleading to claim that the verses in the middle were fulfilled in 1919.

AlanF

searchfothetruth

AlanF.

We went on to talk about the 1919 claims after reading these scriptures and I made the point as you said before, that either the whole chapter is in the future or it is all in the past. I asked for the logic that the society use to claim that these three verses are fulfilled but the others aren't. He said that the scripture isn't fulfilled but the act of choosing the faithful slave was. Obviously this then led onto trying to get any scriptural evidence about why 1919 was the year and he said that when Jesus came in 1914 there was a war in heaven and then only after the heavens were cleansed would the slave be chosen.

I then asked him straight after this when the governing body was actually founded and he said " 1971"

Now I was really confused. It took the society 72 years to set up a governing body that was supposed to have been set up in 1919. He then said that the presidents and the board of directors were the faithful slave but this arrangement was refined in 1971 and again in 2000.

AlanF

There's no way there's going to be a mass culling of elders due to the mishandling of child molestation, unless there's a complete change of WTS administration from the top down.

First, there are so many examples of mishandling that it would decimate the ranks of elders, and the Society is already so hard put to find any elders at all that they've been scraping the bottom of the barrel for years to find any at all that can manage more than tying their shoes.

Second, and most importantly, it is not generally the elders who have screwed up these cases, but the Society itself, which is actively involved in virtually all molestation cases. If the Society began removing elders for following its own instructions given through the Service Department, a good percentage of these elders would jump ship and start talking to the media to save their own skins. And why not? If Momma Watchtower is prepared to throw them to the wolves, and they're convinced that they followed Momma very well, they're going to turn on Momma. While I would love to see that happen, the men who are in charge of the Society are cunning and will not chance doing something they know would create so many enemies in their own ranks. They will try to tough it out and take their lumps as they come along, hoping (probably rightly) that their claim to be "the faithful slave" will smooth over any problems in the JW rank & file.

AlanF

: He said that the scripture isn't fulfilled but the act of choosing the faithful slave was.

This is complete gobble-de-goop. I've found that an effective technique to deal with such obvious nonsense is to look the JW straight in the eye and give him a look that says, "You can't be serious giving me that bull$hit!" It usually shames them into changing the subject, or occasionally even admitting that their argument is wrong.

: Obviously this then led onto trying to get any scriptural evidence about why 1919 was the year and he said that when Jesus came in 1914 there was a war in heaven and then only after the heavens were cleansed would the slave be chosen.

But this proves nothing about the claimed appointment to a special position in 1919. It's a total non-answer.

: I then asked him straight after this when the governing body was actually founded and he said " 1971"

This elder is thoroughly ignorant of Watchtower claims. A Watchtower article (Dec. 15, 1971?) specifically claimed that Charles Russell was "patently" of the "governing body". Many, many JW publications stress that the "governing body" or "Governing Body" got its start in 33 A.D.

AlanF

searchfothetruth

I was really getting worried at one point because he did not answer as I expected him to on a lot of points and I was wondering if he was just trying to get me to condemn myself so he could report what I was saying. ( I know I am Paranoid )

But I still can't believe some of his comments, especially about Jehovah allowing false prophecies.

AlanF, I agree with you that there isn't going to be a cull of elders, but this brother seemed genuinely convinced that there would be a clearing out. I was talking about an elder who I was working for for 2 months and he wouldn't pay me. When I went to another elder to try and sort it he said I was best to just forget it because the society forbids us from taking our brothers to court. The elder went on to tell me 2 examples of elders that he knew doing a similar thing and then saying that even if nothing gets done, Jehovah knows.

xjw_b12

SFT Very Very interesting post. There are so many points in there I want to dissect, but i don't know where to start.

However....The fact that you were able to meet with said elder one on one, is in itself a victory. I have spoken to elders over the years, and one on one....well you actually get a lot of honesty. 2 elders though, or an elder a MS was a TOTALLY different story...and you know why.

Glad to see you were well prepared, and had all the proof. Don't ya just love going into a situation, where you know you have all the info, including what the rebuttals are. jw's are sooooo predictable.

95stormfront

Been looking forward to reading your update Search. You seem to have given this guy a lot to think about.

Great Job!!!!

Preston

Great Job!

P.S. -- I don't think there is a year zero because the Romans had no comprehension of zero when they developed their number system.

searchfothetruth

There can't be a year zero but that didn't stop Russell ( and Seventh Day Adventists ) making the mistake of counting one. But this elder said that they made another error in counting and that counteracted the first and so they arrived at the right figure. He then said that Jehovah was obviously behind these errors. why would an all knowing God inspire people to make 2 mistakes to get to the right answer instead of just telling them the right answer in the first place?

Two wrongs do make a right then.

Elder came...grasped at straws...and left. UPDATE!

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