by jwfacts 117 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
someone writes a book... the people who criticize, mostly have never wrote a pamphlet.
what are his real motives? that's his business.
if he becomes rich because of his book... more power to him.
I actually never liked his interactions when he first came to this site nor his approach. but he still there, consistent.
so if someone judge you for helping him... who cares. you know your motives as well.
Lloyd ... has a huge personality.
I think that's what helps him do what he does. It takes someone with a strong personality and a strong ego to take charge, and lead the way in a cause or movement. And people sometimes get rubbed the wrong way by strong personalities. But if there wasn't someone willing to put their face to a movement, it may remain an underground thing. Your website, JWFacts is the number one site to learn about JWs and WTS policies/doctrines. But in way, it is a low key approach. Lloyd took it to another level. And like him or not, it is paying dividends in exposing WT scandals.
Personally, I prefer the low key approach. Just the facts ma'am. But that's me, some people need a different style in order for it to make an impression on them.
Here's the real beauty about this 'controversy' if one wishes to call it that: We're free to discuss it. We're free to disagree. We're free to criticize. These are things that we could not do while trapped in the JW religion. And I think for some newly freed ones, it takes a while to handle that new freedom and learn to temper their zeal to freely speak with grace and decorum. Hell, I'm still learning.
Your opening post gave me something to think about and to reflect upon. Thank you for taking the time to do this.
Haters gonna hate....
I see this phrase a lot and it really bothers me. It's akin to the Watchtower smear we all hate, a dismissive insult that effectively says "don't listen to him, he's just a bitter apostate".
Well apostates are such for their own reasons and they deserve to be listened to.
"Haters" is just another smear, we should all know better than to join in this petty name calling.
Who benefits from these cheap smear tactics?
He's not everyone's cup of tea but some people love him so I see what Paul is trying to say. We're all doing our bit to help people escape this cult. Different personalities appeal to different people. I just find him too slow on YouTube, I want him to speak faster, but that's just me.
Well stated Paul. I too appreciate all you have contributed in this journey. We met at Sam and Paul's house, and I think Randy was there also.
I'm with you as to the many avenues to learn the TTATT. YouTube is so effective. I have heard even the presenters that people don't like, they still watch them to feel less alone...to know others experience the same feelings. I've been to several Tahoe fest, and it is amazing how many just show up after watching various videos and visiting sites. So, the medium creates results.
It's hard to forget the AWWA debaucle (was that the name?) and the horrible few days following. I was in the middle of it even fighting with his editor, who I hear is the nicest guy ever. And it seems the fighting continues with other highly visible ex's. Sigh...so it goes.
Lloyd is much more polished now in his presentations and provides I think a valuable service for the cause. I attended his book signing in LA along with dear friends of mine who are fans. There were people of all ages there, (and it was packed, standing room only), most not involved at all in any exJW community. Some out for 30-40 years, former specials, PIMO's etc. I don't even think some people were there for the book like me, but went just to scope out the event.
My point...we are on the same side and with the same goal. We want to successfully exit the cult and shine a light on the damaging doctrines and lies from the corporation. We don't have to agree with everything everybody does. That's the beauty of freedom...even though freedom is a rocky ride.
Yes, this might sound cliche, but it's time for all feuding parties to bury the hatchet--or at least, stay out of each other's way.
Haters gonna hate....
I don’t use that phrase in real life, but it illustrates how some people always have a gripe against someone, no matter what the other party seems to do, or how much they grow.
It’s like, “ Oh??? That great idea is from Lloyd... I hate it.”
That phrase doesn’t bother me in the least. I simple ask, “What do you mean? What do you think I’m hating?”
I would object to the phrase if it was used as a blanket excuse to quell objective criticism of a bad trait, or terrible behavior.
DD
I have to say DITTO to what Slimboyfat says. (Imagine that, WOW!) "The main problem is the frequent display of poor judgment."
Facebook, not really apologising, asking people for money to put something in his book (looking for good material or subject matter, taking creative control away, AND charging for being used) and his thing about Crisis of Conscience, and let's not forget a Gofundme just to contribute so he can write a book.
I liked his videos, so yes it's a shame even I cannot separate the snake oil salesmanship from the product. But really, it's there.
I don't judge others for liking his product, nor buying, contributing, or writing a forward. I can only hold so much grudge, and it doesn't go beyond Lloyd.
Paul, maybe you miss a point about Lloyd. I wrote a book that was received well by ex-JW's and I recognize the tiny market. But I saw how you or Randy Watters or Barb give away your valuable info and I tried to echo the same- my book is available in one free format, one $0.99 digital format, or as a printed book for less than $6. Maybe the market is small, but Lloyd was hoping to squeeze blood out of that turnip.
I basically feel that he wants a salary to write his book, and people to pay him for all the "free" work he has already done supposedly for our sakes. While people like you feel the honor of just helping others, and didn't stop when there really wasn't money in it.
I might could have put that aside if any of his afterthoughts and fake apologies did not sound so similar to those of Watchtower denying "they" had any fault in the 1975 debacle. But it has that same vibe.
I would like to emphasise the point made by '_Morpheus' about the non-commercial feel of the jwfacts website and congratulate Paul for this. The jwfacts website was the first independent source of information I consulted where I felt that the thoughtful and thorough presentation of information and lack of any possible commercial bias meant I could wholeheartedly trust the source. Any hint of commercial bias, however unfounded, would have, for a time (the length of which I cannot know), put me off reading the information.
Having since viewed the 'Cedars channel' videos, I know that Lloyd presents doctrinal information in a way that is not affected by commercial bias. But had Lloyd's videos existed while I was still 'in', I would have been put off as soon as I realised they had a partly commercial aspect, just as I never had any desire at the time to purchase Ray Franz' main book!
I have no objection to a person who invests a great deal of time in helping to share important information with others receiving remuneration for their efforts, and I have since come to buy Ray's books, including the most recently published edition of Crisis of Conscience in hardback purely to show my appreciate for that work. But I still wish to emphasise the important role which I feel Paul's approach plays in, for at least some jws, breaking down that initial mental barrier to the acceptance of information presented by third parties.
I would like to emphasise the point made by '_Morpheus'
Did you bracket my name to draw attention to it? Are you suggesting that perhaps i am not the god of dreams??? Do you really believe that i am not the one who freed neo from the matrix????? Present your evidence or apologize, swine.
