SHUNNING - Unchristian Psychological Torture

by EdenOne 55 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake

    Al these posts just to claim that you're interpretation is right and someone else's is wrong.

    you can't actually prove shunning is unscriptural. Doesn't matter how many words you use, or what the Greeks did.

    jesus said he came to fulfill the law, part of that law was for sinners to be "cut off from amongst gods people". Jesus never said this shouldn't be done, nor did he ever abolish the law - he claims in the bible to have come specifically not to replace the law, indicating it should still stand.

    and the law called for a "cutting off" or a separation from the whole in cases of wrong doing. Special cities were built in Israel for these shunned and exiled people to go live.

    You cannot prove shunning is unscriptural or wrong. All you can claim is that you believe it is and base that on your interpretation of words that can be made to mean anything.

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    Even if you accept that the scriptures approve of shunning, you have a hard time proving that the bible ever mentions or suggested shunning as practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses.

    The bible doesn't say that any secret committees is to be formed, that three elders decide on who should be shunned, that what three elders decide determines that a person's family and friends have to shun him. What the bible suggests is, that if there is someone is called a brother, but is known to do these non christian things, you would not talk to them. It's quite simple really, two things have to be true, they claim to be a brother and they are KNOWN to do these Christian things.

    It says nothing about leaving Christianity and then living a non Christian life. It says that a person has to be "one called a brother". The elders have been known to come after people years after leaving. What is the scriptural basis of that? It says nothing about a formal committeee. "Judicial committee" is not in the bible. Disfellowshipped is not in the bible. Shunning is not in the bible. It says nothing about a Christian leaving a Christian religion for another Christian religion.

    I believe the intent, what they are saying, is if you know of someone calling themself Christian, and you know that they are doing these wrong things, then you would not have anything to do with them. It doesn't mean that they do things that your particular flavor of Christianity believes is wrong, it means a liar, an adulterer, things condemned in the bible. Early Christians had disagreements, it didn't mean they were shunned. Therefore It doesn't mean you get shunned because you don't believe some arbitrary group of men (like the governing body). If one could disagree with an apostle, what makes the elders or even the GB so sacred you must obey them?

    It doesn't mean you get shunned for celebrating Christmas, that isn't mentioned in the bible. Or birthdays, or voting, or serving in the military or any of dozens of things you can be shunned for by the JWs.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses have twisted the scripture to mean something never envisioned by early Christians. It wasn't to used to coerce people to stay in the church, it was meant to stop hypocrisy. It was to be decided at an individual level, when and if you knew of such sin, they were known to do such things. It wasn't an excuse for elders to question a person about their most intimate secrets, to pry, to condemn, to pronounce judgement. What the elders do is evil, they improperly decide on motive, determine repentance and pronounce judgement, which is only between a person and God. As the bible says, all have sinned and fallen short, so who are the elders to judge?

    The worst thing about the Disfellowshiping process is that not only do they cut you off from your family and friends, they tell you that Jehovah doesn't hear your prayers. Can you imagine? Is it any wonder some who were disfellowshipped go on to commit suicide? Who are they to presume to speak for God? They are just men who can be wrong. We know elders sometimes sit on committee's when they themselves are involved in serious sins such as pedophilia and long term adultery. How could someone like that be doing anything approved by God? They supposedly are guided by God's spirit, but how could that be if the elder is involved in such conduct himself? What did Jesus say about the prostitute? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Those words of forgiveness and compassion mean something, something the Watchtower ignores.

    No, the bible does not justify what the Watchtower does, which is to break up families, hurt people who are going through difficult times and shut down those with valid concerns, all to protect the hierarchy of a cult.

  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake

    Lisa Rose,

    anymore I generally try to stay out of bible debate because it's all interpretation. But you're factually wrong about the bible not encouraging shunning.

    there are direct references in the old testament which I already referred to, where it says one should be "cut off" from amongst the people. Watchtower falsely states this to mean killed - it does not mean killed. If they would study history and use the Hebrew term as it is meant, they'd actually have an argument for shunning that's scripturally based. Because that's what is happening, a person is shunned and sent to a city ostracized from family and friends.

    No, the bible does not justify what the Watchtower does, which is to break up families, hurt people who are going through difficult times and shut down those with valid concerns, all to protect the hierarchy of a cult.

    This is just blatently untrue. Peter, as an apostle, literally kills a couple for holding back some of their money and pretending to give a lot to the early Christian congregation. This is way worse than shunning, I'd take shunning over this any day. So if we are going to try to use the bible to show shunning is wrong maybe we should stop, lest they start ACTUALLY killing people and follow Peters example.

  • poopie
    poopie
    i think it should be sent toball local newspaper to be published in religous section publish it far and wide from every mountain top let freedom ring.
  • poopie
    poopie
    i think it be sent to every radio station every tv station every newspaper let freedom ring from houstops.
  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    marked

    Nice article, Eden.

    Bobcat

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose
    ymore I generally try to stay out of bible debate because it's all interpretation. But you're factually wrong about the bible not encouraging shunning.

    I didn't say the bible doesn't say to not talk to people for religious reasons, but it isn't done as the Jehovah's Witnesses practice it.

    The old testament isn't really relevant. No Christian Church stones people for adultery, even the JWs.

    As an atheist, the bible is not my guidebook anymore, but the point I am trying to make is that the Watchtower has very little biblical basis for the way they practice shunning.

  • talesin
    talesin

    Thanks so much for sharing this. Nice work!

  • talesin
    talesin
    you can't actually prove shunning is unscriptural.


    "If" one believes in the Bible and JC is the saviour, I would guess that JC would have the 'last word' on this subject.

    Hmmm, it seems to me that JC gave us only 2 'commandments', and they were as follows:

    Mark 12:30-31New International Version (NIV)
    30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[a] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.”

    Is SHUNNING an act of love? How is love defined by the writer to the Corinthians? Oh, here it is. Surely SHUNNING could in no way be considered LOVING.


    1 Corinthians 13:4-7New International Version (NIV)
    4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    :sunglasses:

  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake
    As an atheist, the bible is not my guidebook anymore, but the point I am trying to make is that the Watchtower has very little biblical basis for the way they practice shunning.

    I gathered this was your point. I just fail to see how you've come to believe this is the case.

    There are Muslims who believe the Koran is a book of peace, and tolerance. They'd never hurt anyone. They feel that ISIS has no basis in the Koran for their murderous actions.

    Then there are Muslims who believe the Koran is a book that justifies ISIS, and encourages these murderous actions. These Muslims would kill the Muslims first mentioned. They don't see any basis in the Koran for shush passive beliefs.

    My point is, you aren't making an effective argument. You're taking a book that can be interpreted countless different ways and interpreting it differently. That's all. From the perspective of a Jehovah's Witness the bible does justify shunning, and you cannot prove it doesn't.

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