by EdenOne 55 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
JD: You cannot prove shunning is ... wrong.
That is simply not true.
Anything that needlessly hurts people is wrong. Institutionalized shunning as practiced by cults, including JWs, injures both the target and everyone that shuns them.
There is abundant evidence for this.
JD: From the perspective of a Jehovah's Witness the bible does justify shunning
Only because they are TOLD that is what the bible says and what it means. This is the definition of indoctrination.
Are you aware that in 1947 the JW religion lambasted the RCC for its practice of excommunication? They called it ""an instrument by which the clergy attained a combination of
ecclesiastical power and secular tyranny that finds no parallel in
history."- Awake! January 8th, 1947, p. 27
The quote is on the right hand bottom of the page.
This is to answer a request by Eden on page 3.
Hi Eden Do you remember Oompa's story?
He committed suicide three years ago:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/search/?q=Oompa
In his own words: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/users/28147/oompa/posts
From what I remember Oompa was seriously hurt in a motorcycle accident, underwent an operation and blood was used. He says he didn't know they transfused him. Somehow the Elders found out and he was DF.
His wife divorced him and his family two girls(?) shunned him. This might have been 7 years ago.
He continued to employ several JW's in his business and possibly his ex wife as well.
When he committed suicide it was major shock on this forum. Then the notice of his death was posted by family which was as cut and dry as his shunning and that caused a major out cry here. A few here on this forum wrote a new notice that filled in the blanks about his life and who he really was....... in no small part he was loved by many of us....... and his home newspaper published it.
I believe and maybe others will confirm that his story covers your request for a personal account of being DF and shunned. Best of all you have access to every word he wrote. So it would be Oompa telling his first person account.
His passing was one of the worst days I experienced on this forum. If your interested and need help researching him let me know.
Giordano
From the perspective of a Jehovah's Witness the bible does justify shunning, and you cannot prove it doesn't.
Yes, I can. Refer to chapter 8 of my article and you'll see it debunked. The only way a Jehovah's Witness can use the Bible to justify shunning in he way its taught by the Organization is by quote mining and ignoring historical evidence. The problem is the following: The implication of accepting what the history and serious textual analysis and contextual analysis tells you is that one would have to abandon the two hopes theology. And I'm quite sure the Watchtower Society isn't ready to go down that route. If there's ONE thing that may be argued in terms of shunning as having PERHAPS some scriptural backing is in what concerns "antichrists". As I argue in chapter 8, even that interpretation is very doubtful because the scope is limited to Christian gatherings.
You cannot prove shunning is unscriptural or wrong
Actually I can prove that is unscriptural AND wrong. More: I'd argue that it should be unlawful. Refer to chapter 2 of my article to see scientific evidence.
What I cannot do is persuade those who are resolved to hate and discriminate against others. That, sadly, I cannot do. But I can attempt to offer some education in hopes they may change.
Giordano: If your interested and need help researching him let me know.
Yes, I am. Please contact me.
Eden
By the way, I've been adding more and more material to the essay. It's now 97 pages long and I wonder if perhaps it will become a book.
Your insights are welcome.
Eden
As an atheist, the bible is not my guidebook anymore, but the point I am trying to make is that the Watchtower has very little biblical basis for the way they practice shunning.
I gathered this was your point. I just fail to see how you've come to believe this is the case.
There are Muslims who believe the Koran is a book of peace, and tolerance. They'd never hurt anyone. They feel that ISIS has no basis in the Koran for their murderous actions.
Then there are Muslims who believe the Koran is a book that justifies ISIS, and encourages these murderous actions. These Muslims would kill the Muslims first mentioned. They don't see any basis in the Koran for shush passive beliefs.
My point is, you aren't making an effective argument. You're taking a book that can be interpreted countless different ways and interpreting it differently. That's all. From the perspective of a Jehovah's Witness the bible does justify shunning, and you cannot prove it doesn't.
JD: From the perspective of a Jehovah's Witness the bible does justify shunning
Right. Again, that is only because this is what they are TOLD the bible says and--more importantly--what they are TOLD it means.
Eden demonstrated there are alternate interpretations. That is just onepart of his evidence based argument.
Fundamentally however, to persuade a JW to abandon his acceptance of shunning as practiced by JWs you would have to undermine their faith in the Governing Body as God's spokesmen/representatives on Earth and/or their faith in the Bible.
As important as those are, this is not part of his thesis. Perhaps in a concluding section of his essay, Eden could raise the issue that since the GB have this wrong, maybe they are wrong about other things, especially their role as G.O.D. (Guardians of Doctrine). This would be a good segue into Geoff Jackson's admission to the ARC that it would be "presumptuous" to claim that they (the GB) are God's spokesmen.
EDEN ONE:
What adds insult to injury is that there doesn't even need to be a committee meeting for JWs to shun somebody. They are all little "judges". It's a sad joke, really.
OUBLIETTE:
I was unaware that the JW religion published an Awake article in 1947 CRITICIZING the Catholic Church for their doctrine of Excommunication! Meanwhile, the JW religion adopted that very same practice with their shunning routine. Hypocrisy at its greatest.
The Witness religion is such a farce that they have to resort to this "blackmail" just to retain members!!
I am glad I had no relatives there and I was not beholden to anybody there, so it was relatively easy for me to "fade".
I am sorry for all the victims in the JW religion who have suffered or would like to leave but are there now under emotional duress! And people want to call this religion "the truth"??
Lurkers, think about it.
