I'm hungry too. Udon noodle time!!!
DD
Just realized they changed maybe the most important scripture in the bible.
by Crazyguy 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Finkelstein
In another perspective the WTS is a religoius cult that wants and needs to control and manipulate people to serve its needs in its literature distribution and proliferation.
The leaders of this organization have always said they were the " only " true and correct preachers of the Gospel, faithfully loyal to God and guided by his holy spirit.
The reality is the WTS made up a Gospel that was strategically devised to assist the continuing proliferation of the WTS publications. So if the WTS is willing to do that, why would it be so surprising for them to change the actual wording of the bible itself toward the support of that particular agenda ?
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steve2
So, regardless of posters' different views on Scripture, there is no single other translation (beside the NWT) that renders the Koine Greek word as "exercising faith". It would be revealing to see what, if anything, the organization has specifically said about the rationale for its unique rendering.
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Saename
steve2 - It would be revealing to see what, if anything, the organization has specifically said about the rationale for its unique rendering.
I assume they would just cite Paul's words—something to the effect of, "Faith without works is dead." They'd say that since Paul believed it, Jesus evidently must have believed that as well. It's not like they were evidently two separate persons, right?
Right...
Finkelstein - The leaders of this organization have always said they were the " only " true and correct preachers of the Gospel, faithfully loyal to God and guided by his holy spirit.
Er... no...? Where did you get that from? Everyone knows that the organisation have always said they were evidently the only true and correct preachers of the "gospel," that they were evidently faithfully loyal to God, and also that they were evidently guided by his holy spirit.
Sorry... I evidently couldn't resist.
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Finkelstein
Self supporting propaganda by the WTS. can come in many variations ........... evidently
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bobld
My thought on"faith without works is dead"
I always thought works meant to over come your sinful tendencys
because you can have faith but it is meaningless if you are sinful
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Lieu
Actually that was James not Paul. If you read it, you'll see he's talking about ones faith leading them to do good deeds towards others, like Christ. By his good deeds you can assess his faith.
He said prior that if you see someone without food or clothing and bid them good day without helping them out, your faith is dead. Do you give preference to rich over poor? He was talking about really helping others and not showing partiality. The ancient way of saying, "Talk is cheap".
JWs use that quote but it's out of context to the point of what's being said in the chapter.
I think the biggest problem is JWs don't know that "works" means actual deeds/actions shown towards others ... it's not job 'work', its not handing out literature.
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Half banana
I do suspect that the leadership of the JW org are so arrogant as to take it upon themselves to alter the Bible text to further their own deluded interests. They do this after awarding themselves immortal life with Christ and Jehovah for their efforts in being God's exclusive channel of communication.
Put this in a psychiatric situation and the psychosis becomes apparent.
They feel empowered by their own delusions.
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Wonderment
steve2 wrote: I do agree that there is nothing in the Koine Greek which supports the NWT translators' rendering of the word "to believe in" as "exercising faith". I wonder: Is there even one other translation in existence besides the NWT that renders the word into an active verb?
Steve: As far as I know, there is no other version which reads exactly as the NWT does in John 3.16. On the other hand, the use of "believing" in the Greek sometimes means a lot more than simply acknowledging a fact, such as ‘Jesus is Savior’ in John 3.16. The context of the verse implies that ‘believing’ requires ‘obedience’ to Christ. The ASV reads at John 3.36: "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him." On verse 18 of this chapter,The McArthur Study Bible explains: “The phrase (lit., ‘to believe into the name’ [of v. 18]) means more than mere intellectual assent to the claims of the gospel. It includes trust and commitment to Christ as Lord and Saviour, which results in receiving a new nature (v. 7) that produces a change in heart and obedience to the Lord...” (Sublines added throughout)
Likewise, of the phrase ‘believes... does not believe’ of verse 18, the NIV states: “John is not speaking of momentary beliefs and doubts but of continuing, settled convictions.” And the Recovery Version: “Believing into the Lord is not the same as believing Him (6:30). To believe Him is to believe that He is true and real, but to believe into Him is to receive Him and be united with Him as one. The former [6:30] is to acknowledge a fact objectively; the latter [3:16] is to receive a life subjectively.”
The way the Greek is phrased (Lit., "the believing into him") suggest this. An Introductory Grammar of New Testament Greek, by Paul Kaufman notes: “Another construction which is common in the New Testament (especially in John's Gospel) is πιστεύω [pi·steu'o] with εἰς [eis] and the accusative case [as found at John 3:16] . . . The whole construction of εἰς [eis] plus the accusative must be translated rather than attempting to translate the preposition εἰς [eis] as an isolated word. Faith is thought of as an activity, as something men do, i.e. putting faith into someone. John uses this construction thirty-six (36) times.” (Page 46, Section 93)
So too, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics says concerning pisteuo (everyone who believes [into]) specifically as found at John 3:16:
"The idea seems to be both gnomic and continual: ‘everyone who continually believes.’ This is not due to the present tense only, but to the use of the present participle of [pisteúo]." (Daniel B. Wallace, Zondervan Publ., 1996, p. 620)The Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (pisteúo) adds: “(1) as primarily an intellectual evaluation believe […] (2) as primarily a religious commitment, especially with God or Christ as the object of faith believe (in), trust [...] especially denoting the exercise of saving faith, with the object expressed by using [eis] or [epí] and the accusative, believe in or on (JN 3.16; AC 9.42) […] (3) as committing something to someone entrust, trust (LU 16.11); passive, as having something committed to someone be entrusted with [from pisteúo] (RO 3.2).” (Friberg, Friberg - Miller)
Because of the presence of a present participle in the verse, the Analytical Literal Translation translates: “every [one] believing [or, trusting] in Him” (Brackets his.) So the idea is brought out by the Amplified Bible, Classic Edition: “everyone who believes in Him [who cleaves to Him, trusts Him, and relies on Him].” (Brackets theirs.)
Other versions:
NSB: “that whoever has an active faith in him”
Jonathan Mitchell: “...the one habitually believing and trusting into Him.”
The Simple English Bible: “Every person who commits himself to Jesus will not be destroyed”
Kenneth S. Wuest: “everyone who places his trust in Him”
Martin Luther tells us: "It is impossible, indeed, to separate works from faith, just as it is impossible to separate heat and light from fire. [...] Faith is not an inert thing." (Preface of the Epistle to the Romans as quoted in Martin Luther, selections from his writings, Doubleday Publishing, 1961, pp. 24 & 33).
Thus, the notion of "believing into," "placing trust in," putting faith in," or "exercising faith" in Christ is not incongruous with the gospel message or with Greek usage.
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Half banana
Martin Luther was wrong! It is perfectly easy to distinguish faith from the works associated with faith.
In the absence of other translators rendering the text in question as “exercising faith” as opposed to “believe,” I conclude that in this instance the JW org have doctored the translation to suit their own interests. It thereby becomes a snub to the “just believe in Jesus” movements. JWs very much want to tell you that they have the works to show that they are doing a worldwide preaching work.
The whole of the Bible was written before the Enlightenment. That meant that the holders of power used any text or provocation, deceit or privilege to keep down the powerless. The motivation for enlightenment values was driven by the urge to destroy corrupt authority by the monarchy and Church. In a sense the western world woke up although it has taken a century or two to realize the application of Enlightenment ideals.
My point is that Bible values are not congruent with modern ethics. The notion of believing as far as the scriptures are concerned, is the primitive tribal one of loyalty to a group with which one can identify. In the same way that loyalty, before the coming of the nation state, was to one's tribal lord. You supported him and he defended you from your enemies. You "believed" in your lord. This was the familiar basis to the Biblical application of belief and faith, the religious notion being drawn from the tribal politics of the masses from countless past generations.
So “belief” was and remains a religious marker or token for both loyalty and personal identity within any religious community. Religious “belief” like tribal loyalty was a matter of pride, it was not supported by reason or evidence, more by a factor of human geography.
Beliefs were for primitives,"knowledge" is the infinitely better modern approach for the benefit of all.