by Robdar 367 Replies latest social current
az,
: The polls that state Americans are in favor of the war have to be taken with a grain of salt as does anything else that is reported in the mass media. 90% propaganda, 9.9% half truths
You can only fight real or perceived lies with facts. Do you have any, or are you just making it up?
Farkel
Dakota Red said:
Robyn, protesting is the right of every citizen in a free society. However, it also carries with it consequences and if you can't accept those consequences, maybe you shouldn't protest. Boycotting France on purchasing their goods isn't denying them anything, it's just others freedom of expression. We are free to buy or not to buy, as we see fit. They are free to offer them for sale anywhere.
Despite my disagreement with you in my recent thread, I agree with this you said, believe it or not! You can't pigeon-hole me in your mind as left-wing now! As much as free speech is a right, we can vote as well with our wallets. It's called free enterprise. We can excercise our opinion freely this way also.
They told unbelievable stories about the torture inflicted on their families...
Mulan,
That did it for me too. Hearing these tales of torture is just to much for most to process.
It was so hilarious when one guy drove by and yelled "commie bastards" at us. I couldn't help but laugh and I blew him a kiss too.
Robyn,
Protest is a good thing. Make yourself heard. You weren't the first and won't be the last to be called a "commie bastard."
Some famous "commie bastards" from our past:
Tom Hayden and Jane Fonda
Senator John McCain, a former Presidential candidate, stated that he was tortured by his guards for refusing to meet with Jane Fonda and her group. Jane Fonda, in her response to these new allegations, referred to the returning POWs as being "hypocrites and liars."
Jane Fonda, in her response to these new allegations, referred to the returning POWs as being "hypocrites and liars."
Seven Thanks for posting.
IMO, It's one thing to be a "commie bastard". It's another to be self righteous about it.
Love,
Robyn
Jane Fonda, in her response to these new allegations, referred to the returning POWs as being "hypocrites and liars."
As a Vietnam Veteran, I will refrain from stating my opinion of "Hanoi Jane," you already know what it is. Her half hearted and insincere apology for stating this and her earlier actions have not been well received in Veteran circles. Suffice it to say, the returning POWs were not the "hypocrites and liars." She is one who has never accepted the consequences of her actions.
While American Soldiers were fighting and dying in the Vietnam War, Jane Fonda, the daughter of Henry Fonda, was using her money and influence at colleges and universities to gather support to advocate communism and encourage rebellion and anarchy against the United States Government.
On November 21, 1970 she told a University of Michigan audience of some two thousand students, "If you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would some day become communist." At Duke University in North Carolina she repeated what she had said in Michigan, adding "I, a socialist, think that we should strive toward a socialist society, all the way to communism. " Washington Times July 7, 2000
Jane Fonda began her participation in anti-war activities around 1967, allegedly after meeting with Communists while in France and with American citizens who were revolutionaries. Her activities included active participation in demonstrations, rallies, radio broadcasts and plays.
Jane Fonda also helped in the organization of a production group called the F.T.A. (F*** The Army). This group helped to set up coffee houses near military bases where they would perform anti-war derogatory-type sketches for the visiting soldiers. The coffee-house sketches were intended to counterpoint the U.S.O. shows, such as Bob Hope and other U.S.O. sponsored performers whose performances increased morale and gave positive support to American soldiers. Some of the F.T.A. coffee house employees would mingle with the soldiers to help them to "relax and unwind", while encouraging the soldiers to desert. Some soldiers alleged that they were promised jobs and money by the F.T.A. if they deserted.
The Vietnam Veterans Against the War Organization received major financial support from Jane Fonda. Jane Fonda's F.T.A. coffee houses helped in recruiting soldiers and veterans for the Vietnam Veterans Against The War Organization. The Vietnam Veterans Against the War Organization membership was approximately 7,000 at it's highest. The Organization's membership number was comparatively low, when you consider that more than 2 1/2 million Americans served during the Vietnam war.
Jane Fonda personally sought out returning American soldiers from Vietnam to solicit them to publicly speak out against American atrocities against Vietnamese women and children during her broadcasts. North Vietnamese officials based in Canada allegedly coordinated her broadcasts.
In 1972 Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden and others traveled to North Vietnam to give their support to the North Vietnamese's Government. When she returned to the United States, she advised the news media that all of the American Prisoners of War were being well treated and were not being tortured.
As the American POWs returned home in 1973, they spoke out about the inhumane treatment and torture they had suffered as prisoners of war. Their stories directly contradicted Jane Fonda's earlier statements of 1972. Some of the American POWs such as Senator John McCain, a former Presidential candidate, stated that he was tortured by his guards for refusing to meet with Jane Fonda and her group. Jane Fonda, in her response to these new allegations, referred to the returning POWs as being "hypocrites and liars."
The Wall Street Journal published an interview with Bui Tin who served on the General Staff of the North Vietnam Army and received the unconditional surrender of South Vietnam on April 30, 1975. During the interview Mr. Tin was asked if the American antiwar movement was important to Hanoi's victory. Mr. Tin responded "It was essential to our strategy" referring to the war being fought on two fronts, the Vietnam battlefield and back home in America through the antiwar movement on college campuses and in the city streets. He further stated the North Vietnamese leadership listened to the American evening news broadcasts "to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement." Visits to Hanoi made by persons such as Jane Fonda, former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and various church ministers "gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses." Mr. Tin surmised that "America lost because of its democracy; through dissent and protest it lost the ability to mobilize a will to win." Mr. Tin further advised that General Vo Nguyen Giap (Commanding General of the North Vietnam Army) said the 1968 Tet Offensive was a defeat. Gen. Giap in his book, made the same statement, adding that they were surprised by the news media reporting and the demonstrations in America. Instead of seeking a conditional surrender, they would now hold out because America's resolve was weakening and victory could be theirs.
From 1969 to the end of the war over 20,000 American soldiers lost their lives in a war that the United States did not have the resolve to win. If General Giap was accurate in his assessment that North Vietnam was going to seek a conditional surrender at the Paris Peace Conference, but stopped due to the sensationalism of the American news media and the anti-war protests following the 1968 Tet Offensive, it follows that those who participated in these anti-war activities have to share partial responsibility for those 20,000 + Americans deaths.
We won the war on the battlefield but lost it back home on the college campuses and in the city streets.
Americans must realize that there are agents* operating in this Country attempting to undermine our Country and it's leadership through our democratic principles in an effort to achieve a foreign country's goal. A prime example of such a person during the Vietnam War was Jane Fonda, an admitted Socialist, who blatantly supported North Vietnam. * Agent - Any person who works to obtain the goals of another nation either for money or for their own political beliefs.
A valuable lesson was taught by North Vietnam to other nations on how the United States may be defeated by fighting a two front war - the battlefield and the American home front. We must be aware of this vulnerability.
In 1975, after the fall of the South Vietnam Government, Jane Fonda returned to Hanoi with her newborn son Troy for a celebration in her honor for the work she had done for North Vietnam. During the celebration, her son was christened after a Viet Cong hero, Nguyen Van Troi. Troi had attempted to assassinate Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara while on his visit to South Vietnam in 1963. The South Vietnam Government executed Troi for this attempted assassination.
I have heard and read that some people believe that Jane Fonda was simply young and impressionable. Jane Fonda was born on December 21, 1937. She was 34 years old when she made her infamous trip to North Vietnam and was in her 30's when she participated in anti-war demonstrations and rallies. During this same time period a large number of young American soldiers, who had not yet reached their 21st birthday, were fighting the war in Vietnam and were held accountable for all of their actions. These same young soldiers were, upon their return to the United States, still not of legal age to vote or buy alcoholic beverages. Jane Fonda was an adult when she made these conscious decisions and actions, and as such, she is responsible and should be held accountable. The Vietnam Memorial Wall contains the names of 25,493 American soldiers who served their Country and paid the ultimate price for freedom who were under the age of 21 ( Casualty Statistics ).
ooooooohhhhh myself-- are ya out there:
Cmon, you want em- you know you do !!
What was it Henry Ford said? "You can have any colour you want as long as it's black"
It's a similar thing with freedom ... we are all for people having freedom as long as they are on our side and of our opinion. If not, they don't deserve it and we'll take it off them as they are misusing it.
This is not freedom.
Hey Dakota,
As a Vietnam Veteran, I will refrain from stating my opinion of "Hanoi Jane," you already know what it is.
I hope you don't think I was making a joke at the expense of the Vietnam veterans and POW's. I personally would not find it hilarious to be called a commie bastard. But hey, that's just me. I respect Robyn for making her voice heard even though we're on opposite sides of the fence. Jane Fonda was a lying, irresponsible ***t. I think she caused others to suffer needlessly. This was all way before my time. I only know what I read and hear from those who were there. Enough said.
Btw, I never read about there being any big nationally televised celebrations, parades and parties when you came home. It seemed as if everyone just wanted to forget about it and not deal with it. Well, I'd like to thank you now for going over there and giving your all for your country. Whether or not you believed in what you were doing, I don't know. But at least you didn't run away. {{{{{{Dakota Red}}}}}} Thanks and welcome home.
seven
Hey, what do you think about the French expressing their personal liberties?
You mean their president trying to power play the United States because he has oil deals with the tyrant and knows he'll never see the money they owe him when we change their government for them?
-Rick
