by TerryWalstrom 35 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Religions should not be banned. The undesirable behaviors should be banned. They are targeting the wrong thing.
Russia did target the wrong behavior. The shunning, the extreme practices and teachings. Since borged refused to remove the bad things, they were banned.
Russia did target the wrong behavior. The shunning, the extreme practices and teachings. Since borged refused to remove the bad things, they were banned.
Are you joking? Or just making things up on the fly?
In what universe Russia targeted Jdubs wrong behavior? Have you ever looked at what their kangaroo FSB 'courts' called extremism?
And now, after the ban, they treat Jdubs almost as terrorists (words game - 'extremism'/'terrorism') - which is far from the truth, despite all vile teachings and practices borg indeed has. At the same time, Russian government sponsors, gives weapons and organizes real terrorists throughout the world.
Are you joking? Or just making things up on the fly?
In what universe Russia targeted Jdubs wrong behavior? Have you ever looked at what their kangaroo FSB 'courts' called extremism?
Read that article....long before they were banned they were being told what needs to stop....
"In late December 2013, the leader of the sect's group in Tobolsk, Siberia, was charged with extremism and the prevention of a blood transfusion that nearly led to the death of a female member of the group.
In 2004, a court in Moscow dissolved and banned a Jehovah's Witnesses group on charges of recruiting children, encouraging believers to break from their families, inciting suicide and preventing believers from accepting medical assistance.
Scattered across the Russian Federation, the 200,000-strong community have been accused of sectarianism, "religious extremism", "incitement to social isolation" and behaviours that undermine societal harmony.
Russian authorities also object to the Witnesses' practice of conscientious objection, opposition to military service, refusal to use weapons, hostility to blood transfusions and the claim made on community members for total devotion."""
So tell me which of those things they deemed extremism are invalid in those kangaroo courts that you describe?
So tell me which of those things they deemed extremism are invalid in those kangaroo courts that you describe?Do you not agree that courts in Russia are 'kangaroo'? Really?
Regarding your links - I'm glad you can use google, but you're twisting with the facts. I don't have time to flood the post with google links, but I've been following development of JWs treatment in Russia since 2000's, and I remember the ridiculous 'expert' decisions on borg's literature to call'em 'extremist'. Based on those ridiculous decisions, they went ahead, and first called local congos 'extremist', then proceeded to calling branch an 'extremist' org, finally (at the moment) they called all JWs extremists and started persecuting them practically as terrorists. The rest of the accusations you name were mostly for discussion in media, and not for enforcing the current ban.
Freedom doesn’t give you the right to yell, “FIRE!”, in a crowded theater.
Being part of a society that is supposedly civilized means that you cannot do and say whatever you want, whenever you want, without consequences.
DD
@DATA-DOG:
Right, you are advocating a ban because you don’t like people being JWs. They disagree with you. It’s granted to you that JWism can be harmful, yes. But that is irrelevant. If people choose freely to believe it, and live their life that way, it’s up to them. You have the same right - and you choose to exercise it differently. Good for you. I would hate to see the government force you into a different choice.
I believe the WTB&TS should pay NO tax, and I believe you should pay no tax too. Taxes are theft.
Freedom doesn’t give you the right to yell, “FIRE!”, in a crowded theater.
Who is yelling “FIRE!”?
Oh I see. That is a pretext used to justify your ban. Well, how about this: “I think you should be banned from all forums everywhere... why? Because you can’t go around yelling ‘FIRE!’” See it works for me too.
By the way, I think the whole “can’t tell fire in a crowded theatre” line of reasoning to ban speech is misguided at best. The speech should carry no consequences legally. The consequences flow from any liability that occurs due to yelling “FIRE”. There is a difference. We can discuss that if you like, but it’s a bit off topic.
Being part of a society that is supposedly civilized means that you cannot do and say whatever you want, whenever you want, without consequences.
Yes it does. Private property is the exception.
By the way, there is also no such thing as “hate speech” either.
I don’t think JWism should be banned because I don’t like people being Dubs. Where did you get that idea?
I think they should be banned because they are a destructive cult. The blood ban alone has caused untold deaths. They scream, “Fire”, in the sense that they spout falsehood and propaganda for the sake of shock value. They also undermine real family values.
If your speech is thoughtless and causes harm to another, there should be consequences. You and I can’t say whatever we want. That’s a fact. Freedom is not absolute.
Private property? Sure, you can do what you want on your own property, within reason. Let the Dubs move away from society and live in communes. Chances are they won’t be bothered unless they start to publicly practice behaviors that are harmful. They simply don’t have that right. Their freedom does not trump the freedom of others.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, all the human rights, blah, blah...JWism is opposed to all that, however they Church it up.
It’s sad that ignorant R&F Dubs pay the price, much like Malawi, but that’s a consequence of ignorance, willful or otherwise.
Taxes are theft. I agree.
There’s no reason to allow Churches to operate tax free anymore. They buy up property and make huge sums of money and a great deal of religions don’t help with charity all that much.
DD
@DD:
That’s right. I got it. You think JWs are a destructive cult. But for the JW standing in front of you saying, “I don’t think it’s a destructive cult. I Iike this way of life, and I agree with the blood policy, and disfellowshippjng, and the entire lot of it,” what do you say to him?
Put another way: I think the Democratic Party is a destructive organization that’s actively toying around with ideologies that have literally killed millions. Do I get to ban them?
If your speech is thoughtless and causes harm to another, there should be consequences.
Aside from direct threats, how in the world does speech, thoughtless or otherwise, “cause harm” to someone? Are you saying that speech is violence?
Their freedom does not trump the freedom of others.
Right, now you got it. Excellent. So I assume we are done here?
Taxes are theft. I agree.
There’s no reason to allow Churches to operate tax free anymore.
Uhhhh... “Forced sex is rape, I agree. But there’s no reason to let women deny sex anymore.”
The watchtower played with fire and got burned. Nuff said.
''The watchtower played with fire and got burned. Nuff said''
Yipp. You can only 'play with fire for so long'.
