Acts 15:29 - "keep abstaining from blood"

by aqwsed12345 81 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Fisherman

Is eating blood and transfusion the same? Ultimately you are putting a large amount of blood into your body one way or another.
EasyPrompt

Hi, Vander!

I used to be in daily association with an HLC (Hospital Liaison Committee) "brother" and PVG (Patient Visitation Group) "brothers".

The HLC training program is in depth and the information binders are many for the HLC "brothers" because there are so many different uses for blood in the medical field. JWBorg members do take most of them.

Here is an older video that explains...

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODOrgBloodlessMedicine/pub-ivae_x_VIDEO

I went to the hospital many times with the local HLC/PVG guys and also was privy to many conversations regarding blood use by JW patients in the borg. As a "sister" I wasn't part of the program, but I was a witness to a lot of what goes on.

The GB/FD$ over the years has leaned heavily into the medical field. While they outwardly claim to hold fast to the Bible's command to abstain from blood, in all actuality they promote taking in blood all the time in alternative ways.

The catch-phrase "it's a conscience matter" is thrown in there by the HLC for many medical procedures involving blood - it's a cop out so they don't get so much heat from the medical community and so they can keep the money flowing in from the rank and file and so they can have approval from the governments.

The GB/FD$ is willing to break God's laws on blood in order to make a buck. The WTBT$ advertises the HLC as if it's out there saving babies or something, but it's actually a promotions department, and they're not promoting God's way.
EasyPrompt

The GB/FD$/HLC people are not very good at math.

Here is a screenshot from the lesson in their primary Bible study book, "Enjoy Life Forever"...

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/enjoy-life-forever/section-3/lesson-39/

There is a picture of a vial of blood and the caption basically says certain fractions of blood are not blood.

It's the same kind of reasoning the snake used with Eve. "You can eat a fraction of the tree - you can eat a piece of the tree, that fruit, go ahead..."

The snake lied. The GB/FD$ are lying too.

It's a simple command. It's a way to show respect for God and the blood of the Christ.

"Abstain from blood."
enoughisenough

The Bible says the life is in the blood...you get someone else's blood, you get the substance of their life.--would you take in another person - or does that seem horrid/offensive to you? You think it isn't cannibalism?....others disagree. Blood is big business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16EL-ZexH5A&t=143s
EasyPrompt

"You guys are a bunch of Pharisees, making advice into commands while toying with the lives of children."

Vander, most of the time in the area I live in, there is a court order anyway for a blood transfusion when it involves a child. That's just how it is. The HLC knows it, so they don't talk about it publicly much. The times I knew about it here usually involved either a NICU situation or something like a hemorrhagic fever, and frequently the children died after the transfusion anyway. (Usually if there is a planned surgery for another type of issue, there are surgeons who will do surgery without blood transfusions.)

All the "children" of Adam and Eve are dead already. We live a short while, and we die, just like the plants in the field. The only way to live forever is to follow the Christ 100%. There is no "fraction" of willful disobedience that is acceptable when it comes to being "whole-souled".

Circumcision didn't save anybody, but it was an opportunity for Abraham's family to show obedience. It was a symbol of cooperation, of their love for God. In and of itself, it didn't save them, but it was a way for them to show trust in God.

Later on, baptism became an outward sign of our obedience. In and of itself, baptism doesn't clean anybody or make them live forever, but it's a way for us to show our love for God, to obey Him.

It's the same with obeying the command about blood. The medical community today will change tomorrow, they always do. The medical community used to think it was a good idea to drink mercury or put dung on wounds. So-called "scientific" information has a half-life where-as God's wisdom is always reliable.

If someone accepted blood in the past, God is forgiving, that is what the ransom is for. But God is calling for us to repent. Only the blood of the Christ can save. Praising Jesus means respecting his blood as the only source of salvation.

"I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death."
Vanderhoven7

8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
10¶And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Matthew 11:8-11

Why did Paul say not to ask questions of
conscience when eating in the home of a pagan?
Foolednomore

Easyprompt- if you needed blood would you take a fraction?
Foolednomore

It amazes me how bible thumbers like tell people how they should run things. Including one's own health and body. If they don't want to take blood/ fractions or whatever, then fine. But Don't impose your Bullshit Believe system on to me.
TD

I would suggest that the problem is more basic and fundamental than what is being argued.
The Decree doesn't actually say "abstain from blood" --That is not a grammatically complete construction.
What it actually says is, ἀπέχεσθαι...tοῦ αἵματος. -- To keep abstaining from blood or To be abstaining from blood.
It's a clear reference to a prohibition that was already in effect at the time the words were written. (i.e. The eating or possibly drinking of blood)
It therefore becomes incumbent upon the claimant to demonstrate in concrete terms, how and why transfusion would fall under the umbrella of this prohibition. That's not an easy argument to make, as its not supported. by modern medicine.
JW writers attempt to sidestep this responsibility via semantic legerdemain. They invoke an incomplete predicate apart from the context that completes it and pass it off as an independent construction. (I'd be happy to elaborate on the grammatical issue.)
That is not a latitude you should allow. Make them stick to what the Bible actually says.
EasyPrompt

"Why did Paul say not to ask questions of
conscience when eating in the home of a pagan?"

Paul didn't say that. This is what he said:

1 Corinthians 10:25-28

"Eat whatever is sold in a meat market, making no inquiry because of your conscience, for “to Jehovah belong the earth and everything in it.” If an unbeliever invites you and you want to go, eat whatever is set before you, making no inquiry on account of your conscience. But if anyone says to you, “This is something offered in sacrifice,” do not eat because of the one who told you and because of conscience."

The context was not about blood, it was about meat that had been used in pagan worship. If the meat was properly bled, it didn't matter that it'd been part of a pagan ceremony, because those pagan gods weren't real anyway. The context in 1 Corinthians chapter 8 makes clear he was talking about not stumbling other Christians regarding meat sacrificed to idols. It had nothing to do with eating blood or not eating blood.

"Now concerning food offered to idols...Now concerning the eating of food offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. However, not all have this knowledge. But some, because of their former association with the idol, eat food as something sacrificed to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled...For if anyone should see you who have knowledge having a meal in an idol temple, will not the conscience of that one who is weak be emboldened to the point of eating food offered to idols?...That is why if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat at all, so that I will not make my brother stumble."

"Easyprompt- if you needed blood would you take a fraction?"

That's a loaded question.

Hebrews 9:22

"Yes, according to the Law nearly all things are cleansed with blood, and unless blood is poured out no forgiveness takes place."

John 6:53

"So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves."

I don't take a fraction of blood. I accept Jesus' whole blood as meeting my all needs.

"It amazes me how bible thumbers like tell people how they should run things. Including one's own health and body. If they don't want to take blood/ fractions or whatever, then fine. But Don't impose your Bullshit Believe system on to me."

@Foolednomore, nobody is imposing anything on you. You can go suck whatever you want, but that you reap what you sow even mean old Zophar recognized at Job 20:16...

"The venom of cobras he will suck;
The fangs of a viper will kill him."

Doctors push blood transfusions because it's on their flowcharts. If a patient dies of anything and they don't have "blood transfusion" checked off on their list, they could get sued. It's not because of "wanting to a save life" that they push for transfusions. It's because of the industry. Blood banks are big business, as enoughisenough already brought out. Have you ever driven by a plasma donation center? There is one in the town next to mine. It's often got a line out front of all the drug addicts who are waiting to donate so they can get money for their next "fix".

If the industry really cared about "saving lives", they wouldn't be sucking the blood of those who are marginalized and struggling with addictions. Supporting such an industry doesn't "save lives". It ruins them.

Psalm 49:7,8

"None of them can ever redeem a brother
Or give to God a ransom for him,
(The ransom price for their life is so precious
That it is always beyond their reach.)"

"Medical" blood use - Follow the money. $$$

You wouldn't see Jesus out there donating blood at a plasma center. His "donation" was once for all time, and it is the only blood that saves.

Acts 15:29 - "keep abstaining from blood"

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