Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Sea Breeze

  Logic is neither happenstance nor design. It's a human construct.

  @TonusOH

  Or really, then why is logic across cultures, languages and time periods always the same if it is a human construct as you say?
  
  Why isn't it different in different geographic locations, or on different planets? Anything should be possible in a chance universe right?

  Why should numbers work the same here as opposed to differently in another galaxy? In my opinion, It only makles sense if this is all the product of a mind, but certainly not the mind of just any man.

  
  
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  TonusOH

  Sea Breeze: why is logic across cultures, languages and time periods always the same if it is a human construct as you say?

  It seems to me that you answered your own question. It's like asking "why is spoken language always done with the mouth, if it is a human construct?" Logic is a method of reasoning, and reasoning is a way that we interpret our world. Logic just applies a stricter set of rules to make our reasoning more reliable. It's a natural outcome of humans applying their thinking capabilities. It should always be the same, every time it is developed.

  Please explain how an intellect would have "designed logic." Help me make sense of this claim, seeing as you consider it an important basis for determining if a god exists. Try to avoid "how else" statements. You must have a clear explanation for how this is done, right?
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  Sea Breeze

  It's like asking "why is spoken language always done with the mouth,

  So, you're saying that logic is simply a construction of our minds? That doesn't really work.

  The product of the mouth is all kinds of different languages. But logic, stays the same in spite of brain differences. We all have different brain chemistry, cultures, intelligence levels, experiences etc., etc,. etc. Logic doesn't make sense if it is simply a description of how our minds work, because they are all so different.

  But, it does make sense if logic is a description of how God's mind works and we are made in his image.
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  TonusOH

  Sea Breeze: But logic, stays the same in spite of brain differences.

  Again, I think you've answered your own question. Logic is one of the ways that we make sense of the world around us. There really aren't many ways of developing methods of logical thinking, so I would not be surprised that different cultures would follow similar paths. As these cultures intermingled, they would further refine those paths.
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  cofty

  All A are B

  All C are B

  Therefore all C are A

  Therefore Jesus!

  Fundy xtians are living proof that even the most simple logic is not a human universal.
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  Sea Breeze

  Logic is one of the ways that we make sense of the world around us.

  TonusOH, I know you believe in logic. We all do because we are made in the image of God. But, you shouldn't in your worldview. In a chance universe there is no baisis for you to trust logic at all. You must assume that laws of reasoning are the same everywhere and in the future, even though you have been to neither. You have to borrow your assumption from a biblical worldview in order to even argue against it.

  The other assumption in your statement above is that you assume the world should make sense. Now why in the world would you assume the world should make sense in a chance universe made up of explosions, random unguided chemical reactions and copying mistakes? It makes no sense.

  The reality is that without a biblical worldview you would be unable to "know" anything at all. So, you cannot escape the fact that you must steal a Christian belief, in order to even argue against the existence of God. Isn't that interseting? I think it is. You need to own your entire worldview, in which case you forsake all knowledge. Alternatively, you should get saved and and stop stealing from Christians.

  The third comment that I have on your answer above is that you have committed the fallacy of irrelevant thesis. You provided a true answer to a question I never asked. We all know the laws of logic work. But, that's not the question is it?

  It would be like if you and I went to a friends house and saw a Toyota Prius in the living room. When we asked him how did it get in his living room, he answers, "it works".

  Of course logic works and I can make sense of that in my worldview because "God is not a God of disorder" and "he changest not" and "he cannot deny himself" etc. But, in your world of chaotic explosions and unguided chemical reactions and copying mistakes, there is not basis to trust them at all.
  
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  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  Wrong. Uranus has one too.

  Sigh. No. You’re wrong. Uranus has a unique axial tilt, not retrograde rotation like Venus.
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  Jeffro

  Sea breeze:

  If the universe were different, then the universe would not be the same.

  That's deep.

  It is actually exactly as deep as claims about the uniqueness of the universe, but with fewer words.
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  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  Of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.

  Given the size of the universe, your sample size is practically zero.
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  TonusOH

  Sea Breeze: You have to borrow your assumption from a biblical worldview in order to even argue against it.

  You have claimed this many times, but never demonstrated it. Solipsism is not an argument.

  You have presupposed that there is a god, and that logic is impossible without it, and any number of other assumptions that you have made no effort to corroborate. And then you make additional claims built on claims that you cannot show to be true. You assign to me a worldview that you think I 'must' have, presumably because focusing on a strawman is easier than explaining and defending your presuppositions.

  How can there be a Biblical worldview based on logic, when the god you describe is a logical contradiction? I can presuppose a much more rational and logical god who would fit our universe and our world without having the many logical and rational issues your god has. In other words, my god is better than yours. And since I arrived at it the same way you arrived at yours, yours cannot exist by your own rules. Do you understand the problems with your mass of presuppositions? Do you even want to?