Just found out their about to baptise my 14 year old boy.

by Crazyguy 63 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Tornintwo
    Tornintwo

    My sympathies are with you...my girl got baptised at 14 and even though I was 'in' at the time I knew she wasn't ready and was making an emotional decision to try to fit in. Now she is leaving the religion we have to tread very carefully with a fade so she won't be df'd.

    I would try to advise him the things we don't get told when we are baptised, his brain is not even fully developed yet, he is going to mature a lot over the next few years and may want to make different choices, the consequences if he gets baptised at this age are a lot worse than if he just waits it out until he is a bit older to make an informed and mature choice.

    As for distracting him from the religion, I didn't try to talk TTATT with my daughter at all, knowing I would push her further in, but she had a lot of problems with friendships in the org, so I just started to let her spend more time with her schoolfriends and she naturally has moved towards them and away from the witnesses, so that now shes made her choice to leave of her own accord. She can't face the judgement of the jws looking at her with criticism because she is associating with 'worldly' ones and she says she can't support a group that wants to see all of her schoolfriends killed at armageddon.

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow

    Blondie, the WT quote you posed is very disturbing. It basically gives instructions on how to bypass a minor child's legal guardians in order to recruit the child. And all justified with the bible/jehovah/WT.

    I have a question. When a child engages in infant baptism* in WT land, is a signature/permission required from their legal guardian(s)?

    In a legal sense, a baptism that involves a child is considered "infant baptism" - or "pedobaptism".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_baptism

    Infant baptism[1][2] is the practice of baptising infants or young children. In theological discussions, the practice is sometimes referred to as paedobaptism or pedobaptism from the Greek pais meaning "child". The practice is sometimes contrasted with what is called "believer's baptism", or credobaptism, from the Latin word credo meaning "I believe", which is the religious practice of baptising only individuals who personally confess faith in Jesus, therefore excluding underage children. Infant baptism is also called christening by some faith traditions.

    In spite of the WT asserting that they don't practice infant baptism, they do. All people who are underage are infants. The legal term for a minor child is "infant". Many Christian churches practice infant baptism. But, here is the difference: in the mainstream churches, a baptism of a minor child is not a contract between the child and the church - it is a contract between the child's parents/guardians and the church.

    In the JWs, they ignore the legal boundaries of the age of consent, and in effect, initiate the child into adulthood long before their legal childhood is over. This seems to, somehow, mirror the attitude of adults who ignore the sexual boundaries of children as well. The JWs have no sense of what are appropriate boundaries between adulthood and childhood. It plays out publicly in the way they view baptism and it plays out privately in their child abuse activites.

  • cognac
    cognac
    How old is your son?
  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    It would be good to help him understand that there is no rush. Jesus was 30 when he was baptised. If he says that this is different because we are so close to the end, that opens up a great opportunity to discuss the history of the religion's failed end time doctrine. Bring up 1914, 1925, the 1941 release of the book Children, and how the religion has always used fear that the end is near to rush children into baptism.

    As his loving father and spiritual head (not by JW standards but by your spiritual standards) tell him that you are directing him for his own benefit to wait until he is an adult. Anyway, baptism is just the outward display. It is the dedication that really counts, so if he raises the fear that he will lose his live at Armageddon for not being baptised, remind him that Jehovah would know if he has really dedicated himself, and you can take the blame for preventing the baptism.

    This could all lead to some really good conversations and help you understand what your son is really thinking.


  • StephaneLaliberte
    StephaneLaliberte

    I remember very well how I felt when I was a kid and got baptized at 13: I had made up my mind, I had decided to serve Jehovah, and no one could stop me. Anyone who would get in my way would be swiftly dismissed in the same way Jesus dismissed Peter before going through his ultimate sacrifice.

    My point is: If you say no, or even sound like you are discouraging your kid, he will hear nothing.

    So, you will need to walk with him and steer his direction, not hit the brakes.

    First, you need to command him on wanting to be baptized. The fact that he wants to be and do good in his life is truly commendable. For that fact alone, you can be proud of him.

    However, you are concerned about his ability to make an informed decision. Ask him to read the second baptism question and ask him why it is needed? Wouldn’t it be implied of derived from the first question? What was the previous second question? Why did they change it? Have him reflect on these things himself. Tell him you don’t want to hear: I don’t know. He can make researches for school, he should be able to make such research for the most important thing in his life.

    In the end, it will come down to “it’s a legal contract with the watchtower”.

    Then, ask him to make a research on how to make a wise decision when buying a used car. When he comes back, he should normally have steps like:

    Validate the reputation of the business

    • with current/previous customers
    • with the government
    • with the neighbors
    • with the competitors

    Validate the quality of the car by

    • Getting a report on the car to know if it was in an accident before
    • Get information on its previous owner(s)
    • Scrutinize for defects yourself
    • Try to drive it to see if you like it

    Then, tell him that he should ignore disgruntled customers as they all have bad motives. The government has no idea what he is talking about. The neighbors are jealous and the competitors are outright lying. The car was in an accident, but the report is probably falsified. The previous owners were jerks but they don’t own the car anymore, so that’s too far into the past and every dent and rust you see…well, you are not focusing on the right thing, the motor. And no matter how you feel when you drive this thing, I am telling you how you are feeling: You are in the best car in the world, you are happy. You don’t feel this way? That’s because you are negative. Look how happy I am in it.

    Then tell your kid: Here is what I want you to do: Take some time, like a week, and list a few things you don’t like about the society, or that you simply don’t agree with. I’d like to hear what disturbs you the most, and some little things that are simply annoying to you. Then, come back and well talk about these.

    When he comes back to talk about these things, ask him why they should simply be ignored. You may also help him understand how important these things truly are. After all, if they were not important, ask him to casually talk about these things at the next meeting(s) with at least three different elders and see how they react. If the elders use the “wait on Jehovah”, ask them if it would be alright to talk with other JW at various times to know what they thought about it. If these things are not important, why would it matter? Oh, they could create division? Well, there are many things that are left to the conscience, are you telling me that simply talking about these things and how we feel about these could create division and we should not express ourselves AT ALL on the matter?

    Then tell him: This is not a hypothetical question. I want you to do it for real. How are you feeling now? A little afraid? Why would this feeling come up for insignificant matters in a religion that has more love to spare than anyone else on the planet?

    If you have doubt about this, you can put a hold on getting baptized to a later time. After all, wasn’t Jesus 30? Can you show me one scripture where a kid was baptized?

    If I can think of my 13 year old self, that would have turned me off right there.

  • Zoos
    Zoos

    Trying to look at this situation from your son's perspective.

    The brother(s) who study with him have probably implanted the idea of baptism into his head under the guise that it is a dedication to God. What loyal, emotionally charged young Christian wouldn't want to show God how much he/she loved Him by making this public dedication? He also gets to sit in the special place at the convention with thousands of eyes on him and enjoy all the accolades that come with it. Pretty enticing.

    How are you going to combat that without coming across as a God-hater... a position that will only confirm the warnings his "teachers" have probably already given him about you, thereby strengthening his resolve?

    That's a tough situation.

    I can think of three approaches off the top of my head:

    1. Lead with making your son KNOW that you approve of his love/dedication/sincerity for God.

    2. Calmly show him how Watchtower has perverted baptism into a loyalty contract with the organization and how such a thing is not scripturally supported.

    3. Show him how even Jesus - THE SON OF GOD - in whose footsteps we are supposed to walk, waited until he was VERY mature before making such an important decision. Then ask him to contemplate the reasons why Watchtower would want to hurry him into such a contract. (Keeping in mind what you said in your OP about how the elders will expect your son to treat his own father after baptism)

    YOUR CALM, LEVEL HEADED APPROACH WILL BE VITAL.

    Just spewing what jumped into my head. Hope this comes across as at least semi-coherent.

  • under the radar
    under the radar

    Hi Crazyguy. I can sympathize with your predicament. This is a dangerous situation, and I hope you can "nip it in the bud."

    I am certainly not holding myself out as any sort of example, but this is what worked for me:

    (Bear in mind, I was "in" at the time and usually attended meetings when I was in town, but was mostly going through the motions and almost never went in "service." I couldn't force myself to try to teach others something I didn't truly believe myself. I was also open and occasionally vocal about things about the organization that bothered me. That included some outright skepticism about certain of the more "iffy" doctrines, interpretations, and policies.)

    When my son was around 12 or 13, I was working away from home about every other week or so. My wife and a "brother" from the congregation (who considered himself my best friend) took it upon themselves to indoctrinate him into getting baptized. They "studied" with him behind my back and would tell him I wasn't doing right and he had to help me so I wouldn't be destroyed at Armageddon. One night he came to me in tears, asking why I wasn't serving "the big J" and saying he didn't want me to be destroyed. It broke my heart, just as his little heart was breaking.

    We had a long talk about things and I tried to comfort him that I wasn't doing anything bad and I just had some problems with the organization (not "J-dog" himself) and that I didn't feel right putting on a show just because of what others might think. He calmed down and became his normal happy and loving self again. The crisis was averted, but I knew I had to take action.

    I immediately put my foot down, and hard! Under no circumstances was anyone other than his mother to "study" with him. When I was away, he was to obey his mother and go to the meetings with her, out of respect for her feelings as his mother, until he was 18. But he could not be compelled to go in "service." And under no circumstances whatsoever could he be baptized before he was 18. I absolutely forbade it, under threat of immediate divorce and full court press to get 100% custody. And I could have done it, too. There are circumstances not discussed here that would have practically guaranteed it. Most importantly, his mother knew I meant business, so she backed off.

    He dutifully went with her to the meetings until his 18th birthday. That was his last meeting, and mine as well. That was 15 years ago, and he is now a happy and successful adult. He loves his mom and sees her often (she and I have lived apart for the last 10 years), but she has learned the quickest way to put him off is to try to push more religious nonsense down his throat. He has had more than enough.

    Crazyguy, PLEASE play the "headship card," or whatever else will work, and make sure no outsider "studies" with your son behind your back. And forbid him to get baptized until he is at least 18 and knows what he's doing. I can almost guarantee he'll love you for it in the end. He'll know you stood up for him and kept him from making a terrible mistake when he didn't have all the facts and was too young to understand the lifelong ramifications.

    Good luck...

  • Heaven
    Heaven
    Jesus was an adult before he got baptized. Use this as your example. That's what my Mom did. It saved all of us kids.
  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister

    If you are still considered a witness they will have to listen to you if you say he's not mature enough to make the decision & that you have prayed about it

    If they don't you need to bring out the big guns with your wife & threaten to ban him from meetings until his is 18, in any legal action she wouldn't stand a chance - the legal system & social services don't like cults

    Ask his mother why she is setting him up for her to have to shun him at some point because it will happen, kids these days will find out the truth at some point in their lives

    Does he appreciate that the WTS frowns on people marrying too young, fearing they may not be mature enough to enter into a lifelong relationship, which is to be taken very seriously??

    Thats a laugh tho', I have never known a bunch of people who get married so dang redneck young (we all know why).

    Most other groups would never allow it fullstop not just moan about it, its why witnesses have such high divorce rates considering their values

  • Viviane
    Viviane
    Were I you, I would seek immediate legal redress. There is precedent for children not being allowed to be baptized into a faith if the parents disagree.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit