Posted in another thread...help me to reason this out, please!

by berylblue 27 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  berylblue

  Francois, I wish I could believe your kind and beautiful words, but I can't. Maybe I'm too brainwashed; I don't know. The Bible clearly indicates that many pesons will die at Armegeddon. I am guilty of fornication. No matter that there's nothing I can do about that right now (long story); I'm sinning and I know it. Fornication is wrong, according to the Bible.

  I don't know if I can stop believing in the Bible. I absolutely hated it before I studied with JWs; in fact, I refused to open it at first. I used only the WTS books. That was my choice, because I used to see the Bible as an antiquated book for of hatred for women.

  Now, I just don't know. The Bible and the JWs introduced me to Jehovah. As far as I know, no other group does that...tells people about Jehovah....I don't know.

  I have prayed and prayed, and nothing Nothing. I am scared and confused. Totally drained from all of this. The very core of my belief system has been shaken by the revelation of what the WTS is really all about.

  I've said it before and I'll say it again:

  I just want to get to know the true God and do that God's will.

  Is this asking too much? I really, at one time, thought the JWs were it....but I don't think they can be anymore...not after all I've learned. Maybe I"m wrong...maybe I'm making a big mistake.

  I want to worship Jehovah his way. I don't know about other religions because I can't buy the Trinity or hell, either.

  I don't know where to go.

  I know that I have a lot of "internal" work to do, but I'm in such a daze all the time from the benzo withdrawal (long story); I feel like I've taken a bottle of NyQuil all the time, it never stops...(read the FAQ here and check out the symptoms: I have most and have had for a year now. Took Klonopin for ten years. I was fine on it. However, I lost my medical insurance and had to go off it. This is what happened:

  www.benzo.org.uk

  Sorry to ramble. I am getting desperate. So much research, months of looking into the "truth about the truth"; I can't take anymore.

  I'm beginning to think there are no answers and that we all just have to muddle along with only ourselves. Perhaps when I get better, I will learn to be content with that. I don't know.

  I have never been so lost and confused in my entire life. My life fell apart when I got sick and I literally lost everything I had. Had to live with my abusive father...Tim was loving and let me stay here. He's generous and kind, he literally saved my life. But I'm fornicating, and I hate that. Doesn't stop me from doing it, though...

  I just don't know what to do. It is painful to the extreme. I am getting obsessed with all this. I am so lost....

  Where and how did everything go wrong?

  Beryl
• 

  jgnat

  I think Dansk was right on the money for the feelings you and many new xJW's are going through. Know that your current state is not static. You will recover. I witness growth and recovery of people here on this board every day. Please be patient with yourself, as it will take a while to disentangle what you believe with the set of iron-clad beliefs that were imposed on you. Even brittle iron bands can be broken.

  Why don't you sit down and make a list of things you do believe in, strongly, now. If you have decided to believe in the bible, why don't you give it a read, without the assistance of the WTS? I sense you are under a heavy burden of guilt for your sin. Consider that Jesus chatted freely with the woman at the well, though he knew full well the man she was with was not her husband. Yet he invited this woman to drink from his inexhaustable well of forgiveness. John 4:6-29.
• 

  Francois

  So in addition to the normal anxiety created by a high-control religious cult, you've got the additional anxiety created by ceasing to take klonopin. You know, if you purchase that as clonezapam (generic) it only costs $35.00 for 60 one mg tablets? Yup. And after 10 years, I'd say you need that benzo to keep you sane. Otherwise, you're easy pickin's for such as run the WTBTS congregations.

  But let's take your concerns one at a time. First, the JWs are not the only religion that acknowledges that the God of the Hebrews was named Jehovah. Of course, the JWs attempt to make a big deal out of it, but it ain't so. Over the door of the biggest Presbyterian church in Savannah is the word "Jehovae" And I've heard every preacher of every kind talk about Jehovah. No, the JWs have no exclusive claim on the use of the term Jehovah. And who would want it anyway? Jehovah is merely the name given to the concept of God that was held by the Ancient Hebrews. And he wasn't much different than Baal, or Astoreth, or any of a number of other desert Gods. Oh, Moses substituted human sacrifice for ritual animal sacrifice, but good God a'mighty, look at what we're discussing here: The existential God of the Universe of Universes, the Infinite, the Eternal, the Omniscent God of the Ages - and he gets off on the smell of burning animals? C'mon. And not only that, but he also digs foreskins? The more the better? Really now. The Hebrews may have stumbled onto the highest concept of God then available, but we are capable of comprehending so much more of the nature and character of God now than we were back then. And Jesus came to disclose the real nature and true character of God to the human race over two thousand years ago, and still we want to combine the angry thunderer, that judge-accountant of Mt. Hermon with the gentle, loving, and merciful Father disclosed by Jesus. Why do we do that? It makes no sense.

  The entire old testament is just that: OLD. It has nothing to say to us about the new and real God that Jesus introduced to us. If you will read the book of Galatians, you will find that the people of that congregation were sternly warned about anyone who came to them preaching the old law of Moses, from which Jesus set us free. And then read too where Paul freely admits that he includes his own opinions in what he is writing. And so we need to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. Jehovah is not God. Jehovah is only a rudimentary concept of God held by an ancient, savage, illiterate tribe of desert nomads. Forget about him.

  And though the Way to life may be cramped and narrow, there is sufficient room there for ALL WHO WISH TO ENTER. How could it be otherwise with a God of infinite mercy and love?

  I have absolutely no doubt that I will survive whatever comes (although I don't believe in Armageddon. That's Jehovah's game, and I don't believe in Jehovah.) and I will survive to grow, and change, and evolve into a more perfect creature. Perfection, you see, is our future goal. It is not ours by right of attainment now after this one short life in the flesh. And, by the way, I maintain this certainty in the very teeth of the fact that I have fornicated my head off at each and every possible chance I've had since I was 16 years old. God programmed me that way, how could he now find fault with something HE created? Did you know that in Samoa, a young woman was not considered elegible for marriage unless and until she had given birth to at least one healthy child? She had to prove herself capable of child-bearing before any of the guys would have anything to do with her (well, within limits, hehehe). Yes, but they worshipped false gods, you say? Yeah, they sure did. They worshipped the same sort of God as Jehovah, but theirs didn't get all hot and sweaty about a little natural, normal activity, a little spot of heavy breathing.

  If you'd like to read something that I think does a good job of introducing God, read "The Tao Te Ching" by Lao Tzu. It was written 600 B.C., but contains many of the precepts of the Sermon on the Mount.

  Finally (for this time, anyway) try to free yourself from the brainwashing of the WTBTS. They're going nowhere but down. They do not know God. Nor do they know the truth, as is so obvious. The truth is not in them. They are hypocrites, liars, and false prophets.

  I'm not claiming to have all the answers to all these deep questions. But I'm pretty good with the easy ones. And all that I've learned in the last 25 years of experience in and with the Spirit I'm willing to share with you to do with as you please. But I predict that what you will find will be freedom. Freedom to enjoy the soverignty of your own personality; freedom to enjoy, to revel in your own private, personal, and unique relationship with the God of the Universes.

  Perhaps one of the first things you should do is get yourself a prescription for the klonopin generic called clonezapam at thirty-five bucks for sixty.

  And here's my email address: [email protected]

  Use it any time you like.

  francois
• 

  Shakita

  berylblue:

  gopher said:

  no doubt a number of these of the "untouchable" celibate class will commit mass suicide, facing the prospect of no nookie forever.

  Very funny!

  beryl, I am so sorry that life is so confusing for you lately. I really have nothing new to add to the others comments here, just wanted you to know that I hope the others here have some words to help you feel better. Being I am confused and frustrated myself after leaving the JW crap behind, I fear I will be no help to you at all. But Mr. Shakita might be. Take care.

  Mrs. Shakita

  Hi, Berylblue,

  Fear is a great motivator. Fear motivates the vast majority of the rank and file Witnesses to stay in line. The Gb instills a phobia into the rf that prevents that one from leaving. The GB makes the claim that to gain salvation one needs to become a JW and remain such all of their lives. Failing to remain a JW will mean the loss of eternal life. Translation: Eternal destruction. So, God will bring the big A on anyone's head if they decide to leave the JW's. Of course, that is a lie. The Jews of the first century made a similar claim, saying that to gain salvation one needed to carry out the law. The Apostle Paul showed clearly how that was a falsehood. The only true requirement is to be found at John 6:40: "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." There is no place in Jesus's statement where he indicated that salvation comes from adhering to a particular religion.

  What a contrast to the way Jesus dealt with people. People were drawn to him because of his geniune love, concern and kindness. If Jesus was the type of person that intimidated people, no one would have been drawn to him. Rather it was the Pharisees that put fear into the people and threatened people with expulsion from the synagogue if they didn't cowtow to them. In other words, if the rank and file Jew didn't follow the tenets of the religious leaders, it could very well lead to expulsion from the synagogue. Those thrown out would be viewed as dead. That is no different than how the WT deals with those that have a conscientious disagreement over the interpretation of scripture. Any rank and file Witness that has a conscientious disagreement over scripture or how the flock should be treated, will be hurled out, viewed as dead by the congregation.

  So BB, don't be intimidated or find yourself in confusion by the spiritual terrorists. They have not been put in place by God to judge. That is the job of Jesus Christ. Knowing the kind of person Jesus really is puts my mind at ease because I know that he would never judge anyone harshly the way that the Watchtower does.

  Mr. Shakita
• 

  Ravyn

  just a suggestion--but have you ever gone to any of the religion sites and taken the 'qizzes' they have to figure out what you DO believe in? beliefnet.com has a few quizzes like this. It is not much but it might give you some comfort if you can see yourself in the company of others of like minds....

  Ravyn
• 

  Pistoff

  Berylblue:

  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<berylblue>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  Beryl:

  PLEASE don't be so hard on yourself. If you are doing something now that is giving you guilt, please just take a deep breath and ask why you are still doing it. "Fornication"??? Such a Pauline word.

  Do you think that early christians were all able to avoid sexual relationships, like Paul wanted them to? How about the Israelites? You gotta know that they were bending, breaking laws left and right.

  Do you think God is keeping as close track as you have been led to believe? Do you think he would deny you the human contact you are craving? Is it something you will be doing forever, or can you see yourself changing it someday? How about this: do you have any idea of the breaking of the rules that goes on in the borg? It would just shock you; they just do it, and then apologize, put on the act for the elders if they ever do get caught; so, please, don't be so hard on yourself.

  As far as what to believe in, I foundered for five years for the same reason you are: your entire concept of God, spirituality and fellowship was defined and BOUND to the organization. Now that you realize it is not what it says, you are probably subconsciously and maybe consciously doubting God himself. This is the bitter fruitage we all have, as witnesses or exjw's. It takes some time.

  I was tremendously helped out by the recovery concept of higher power and spirituality. I have just allowed my own concept of god to develop; TRUST your instincts, they are good. I have come to realize that we all have a little different understanding of God; it just takes a while to find out what a person actually believes.

  I think you are doing just fine; to question is painful but yields good results. I can say that now; when my counselor told me it was very good to be questioning my belief system, I wanted to punch him, and say, Ya, you try it sometime.

  But it is good; trust yourself, and take it slow.

  BE GOOD TO YOURSELF.
• 

  Pistoff

  Re-reading your last post, beryl.

  I struggle with god's will for me too; a friend once told me that many days he just understands that god's will for him usually is to just do the next right thing.

  God's will for me is to take care of my family, as best I can. The were so damaged growing up in this faith that only now can my oldest and I discuss the fallacies of the org together; he still deeply believes though, and thinks that they are god's chosen people. He has been df'd for many years, he smokes and can not uphold the moral standards that they enforce.

  My other children are another story; one is a true believer, so is wife, and another, daughter only time will tell. She is being told by me that she HAS a choice and she needs to examine the religion from all sources before making a decision, not just what the WT says about itself.

  The sorriest damage we all have to a degree is that we have never thought for ourself; we are taught to distrust our heart, not trust ourselves, not think independently. When we do, we get a stab of supercop conscience, courtesy of the WT.

  It is getting better all the time though; hopefully you can keep sharing here, and realize that everything is going to be OK.
• 

  gumby

  Heres the info berylblue,...there was no pic on the cd.....(cheepasscates wtbts )

  Revelation-it's Grand Climax page 291 par 19-24

  The

  Final Test

  19

  By the end of the Thousand Year Reign, all earth will have come to resemble the original Eden. It will be a veritable paradise. Perfect mankind will no longer need a high priest to intercede for it before God, since all traces of Adamic sin will have been removed and the last enemy, death, brought to nothing. Christ’s Kingdom will have achieved God’s purpose to create one world with one government. At this point, Jesus "hands over the kingdom to his God and Father."—1 Corinthians 15:22-26; Romans 15:12.

  20

  It is now time for a final test. Will that perfected world of mankind, in contrast with the first humans in Eden, stand firm in its integrity? John tells us what happens: "Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city."—Revelation 20:7-9a.

  21

  How will Satan’s last effort fare? He deceives "those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog," and leads them to "the war." Who could possibly side with Satan after a thousand years of joyful, upbuilding theocratic rule? Well, do not forget that Satan was able to mislead the perfect Adam and Eve while they were enjoying life in the Paradise of Eden. And he was able to lead astray heavenly angels who had seen the bad results of the original rebellion. (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6) So we should not be surprised that some perfect humans will be enticed to follow Satan even after a delightful thousand years of rule by God’s Kingdom.

  22

  The Bible calls these rebels "nations in the four corners of the earth." This does not mean that mankind will have been divided once again into mutually exclusive national entities. It merely indicates that these will separate themselves from Jehovah’s righteous, loyal ones and manifest the same bad spirit that the nations show today. They will "think up an injurious scheme," as did the Gog of Magog in Ezekiel’s prophecy, with a goal of destroying theocratic government on earth. (Ezekiel 38:3, 10-12) Hence, they are called "Gog and Magog."

  23

  The number of those who join Satan in his revolt will be "as the sand of the sea." How many is that? There is no foreordained number. (Compare Joshua 11:4; Judges 7:12.) The final total number of rebels will depend on how each individual reacts to Satan’s deceptive wiles. Doubtless, though, there will be a considerable number, since they will feel strong enough to overcome "the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city."

  24

  "The beloved city" must be the city that is spoken of by the glorified Jesus Christ to his followers at Revelation 3:12 and that he calls "the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God." Since this is a heavenly organization, how could those earthly forces ‘encircle’ it? In that they encircle "the camp of the holy ones." A camp is outside a city; therefore, "the camp of the holy ones" must represent those on earth outside the heavenly location of New Jerusalem who loyally support Jehovah’s governmental arrangement. When the rebels under Satan attack those faithful ones, the Lord Jesus regards it as an assault on him. (Matthew 25:40, 45) "Those nations" will try to wipe out all that the heavenly New Jerusalem has accomplished in making earth a paradise. So in attacking "the camp of the holy ones," they are also attacking "the beloved city."

  Gumby