by William Penwell 148 Replies latest jw friends
I always get them impression that sanctions are used more to prove political points than bring about real change:
"Look how bad that regime is - the people don't even have food and medicine"
... because food and medicine are controlled.
Of course companies manage to still make money and bypass the senctions! I'd love to hear a cohesive argument for sanctions against Cuba for instance other than "they are communist" (which seems to have been the whole raison-de-etre for being unfriendly).
You left a cult, why are you trading that for another cult?
well said, TH.
Teejay,
Your scenario of having to choose between a foreigner and an American is, to me, kinda silly -- no offense. Not gonna happen.
That scenario is "not gonna happen"?? LOL It is happening right now in Iraq. Wouldn't you say that the soldiers pointing their guns have to make that choice. 'Hmmmmm Should I shoot the Americans who are closer or the Iraqis who are way over there.' Most american soldiers make the choice to shoot the Iraqis.
I've admitted that my daughter's life is the one exception to my "no life is better than any other" rule. Am I closer to some? Love/have affection for some more than others? Of course.
I see. So this rule has only one exception? Is it possible that you are just ignoring your true feelings? Why is your daughter an exception to the rule? What makes her life worth more? Is she really worth more? What about your mother? What about your brother or sister? It's obviously not as black and white as you would like it to be. Everyone has exceptions. If you have exceptions then you are, imho, ignoring how you REALLY feel.
Simon,
A life is a life.
I value the lives of my own family and friends more that those that I do not know simply becausee I know them enough to make a judgement
Same thing. It's hard to look at isn't it? You are not as pure as you would like to admit.
It's simple guys. You can't say that all lives are of equal value and then say I think this one is an exception because she came from my sperm. This one is worth more because I came from her womb. This one is more valuable because he mowed my lawn when I was sick. I'm not saying that this makes you a hater. I would even venture to say that if someone had kidnapped your daughter and told you that they would give her back and not kill her if you brought them the neighbor's daughter you would refuse. What does this mean?
TimB
Same thing. It's hard to look at isn't it? You are not as pure as you would like to admit.
It's simple guys. You can't say that all lives are of equal value and then say I think this one is an exception because she came from my sperm. This one is worth more because I came from her womb. This one is more valuable because he mowed my lawn when I was sick. I'm not saying that this makes you a hater. I would even venture to say that if someone had kidnapped your daughter and told you that they would give her back and not kill her if you brought them the neighbor's daughter you would refuse. What does this mean?
<Sigh>
How do I put this more simply because I obviously have to ...
You seem to want to declare an American life as more 'valuable' than any foreigners life simply on the basis that they are American.
What I am saying is that the value of the life depends on the person. To judge them on their nationality is woefully inadequate and the whole notion of "we are better than them" is just right wing facism and zenophobia.
When it comes to our own family and friend then we have already been able to form some judgements about them and woudl tend to put them ahead of others. This includes any others, American, Iraqi or Chinese.
Would you claim that a pedophile's life is worth more than a doctors simply if the pedophile happens to be American and the Doctor Iraqi? I hope not !
<Sigh>How do I put this more simply because I obviously have to ...
Do I sense a little condescending tone here?
You seem to want to declare an American life as more 'valuable' than any foreigners life simply on the basis that they are American.
I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is that an American will naturally place a little less value on someone who is not American. An Iraqi will naturally place a little less value on someone who is not an Iraqi. A Brit will naturally place a little less value on someone who is not British. If you know the people individually then the values may change. The thing is, we cannot do that.
What I am saying is that the value of the life depends on the person. To judge them on their nationality is woefully inadequate and the whole notion of "we are better than them" is just right wing facism and zenophobia.
Very good. You are right. I'm not judging Iraqis as having no value simply because they are Iraqis. You are still trying to make everything black and white. I'm saying that depending on your nationality you will place a little more value on the ones fighting for you.
Would you claim that a pedophile's life is worth more than a doctors simply if the pedophile happens to be American and the Doctor Iraqi? I hope not !
No. <SIGH> How many times do I have to say........If you knew their individual stories then it would make a difference. Otherwise the scales are tipped by other factors.
TimB
Do I sense a little condescending tone here?
I have to work on my subtelty
Perhaps we're both saying similar things but just from different angles?
People count wherever they come from and everyone is equal ... it's just some are more equal than others
I would choose the best person, not based on nationality, why? Because how do I know the Chinese person isn't an American either? I happen to work with several Chinese people, that happen to be Americans now.
Did you know, there are more American English () speakers in China than there are in America ?!
That scenario is "not gonna happen"?? LOL It is happening right now in Iraq. Wouldn't you say that the soldiers pointing their guns have to make that choice.
My bad, Tim.
I guess I could have been clearer. What I should’ve said is that having to choose between killing either a foreigner or an American is not going to happen TO ME. And even if that choice was in front of me, I’d do what I was trained to do in that situation: kill the enemy. That’s the whole point of war.
Is it possible that you are just ignoring your true feelings? Why is your daughter an exception to the rule? What makes her life worth more? Is she really worth more?
To me, it’s simple. My daughter’s life is worth more—truly is the exception—for no other reason other than I think it is. It’s a universal fact of human nature: we place greater value on things because TO US they have greater value. Conversely, things of less value—to us—have less value.
FWIW, I think we’ve strayed a bit from the viewpoint of yours that I commented on. You said that American life has greater value than the life of a foreigner. Every one of the questions you’ve asked about my daughter/mother/brother,etc I could ask of you in the context of your viewpoint. What make an American life more valuable TO YOU? Are American lives REALLY worth more? Or do you just THINK they are?
Teejay,
That's exactly the point I was making. The value of a human life changes depending on who is doing the evaluating. For Americans, American lives are of slightly more value. For Iraqis an Iraqi's life is of slightly more value. Generally speaking, of course.
TimB
