by Chap 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Chap,
Actually no I have not heard of them, but I agree with rem, how does that show he even existed, much less resurected. It really only shows that there was a movement, not a person. I had heard of one reciently found that said something to the effect "James the Brother of Jesus" on it. But....... Yeshuah and the hebrew version of the name James were very common names in the first century in Isreal.
Seedy
how does that show he even existed, much less resurected?
Why would someone write "Jesus, let him who rests here arise." if there wasn't a person whos name is Jesus that rose from the dead? It seems to me that he knew the teachings of what we call the New Testament so he hoped Jesus would raise him from the dead like he promised. There is more written about this man Jesus than any other person of the first century and it is not satisfactory to you that this man even existed. Did Pilate exist? If I say he didn't I have less to explain away.
Calling anything that Josephus wrote proof is stretching things a looooooong way indeed. What you have quoted does not prove anything at all about anything at all.
Besides, it is of no importance. Our spiritual lives were to be informed by the way in which The Master lived his life, not by the manner of his death nor of his resurrection. Thus the entire point is MOOT. Love God with a whole soul; love your neighbor as yourself and you fulfill all the obligations Jesus placed on his followers. Nothing else matters. Nothing.
francois
The Jesus story is a copied myth as anyone who cares to examine his life and what he did with already existing beliefs of godmen before him. Fundies never seem to ...want to go there and find out.
According to the fable in the bible about Jesus birth is mentioned that Herod, in wanting Jesus dead, had ALL the male children put to death that were 2 years old and under. that was quite a massacre considering how many jewish babies there must have been in that area.
Guess what though? There is NOT ONE historical record of such an event EVER happening.....even according to Josephus.....surely he would have mentioned such an event of that type of genocide.
Gumby
.
Chap,
Did Attis exist? Mithras? Dionysis? Isis and Osiris? You would say they did not, I'm sure, but they had things written on tombs much like what you mentioned about Jesus. During the time of the worship of the aforementioned "Gods" people REALLY beleived they had existed, just like people today believe Jesus existed.
If writings like that, on a tomb/coffin is evidence that someone existed then the other 5 I mentioned existed and that is the evidence
Seedy
"Our spiritual lives were to be informed by the way in which The Master lived his life, not by the manner of his death nor of his resurrection. Thus the entire point is MOOT."
Francois; Jesus prophesied numerous times that he was going to die and then rise from the dead.
Deut. 18:20-22 King James Version
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. [21] And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? [22] When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then The Master would not be worthy of worship because he would have proven to be a false prophet.
Gumby, The fact that secular writers do not record an event does not falsify the event. When archaeoligical evidence proves that the genocide recorded in Matthew did not happen, then I'll believe it.
If writings like that, on a tomb/coffin is evidence that someone existed then the other 5 I mentioned existed and that is the evidence
seedy,
Jesus lived and had the written works of many eyewitnesses to prove it. If you do not believe the written testimonies of Luke, Paul, Peter, James, John, Matthew, and Mark, I cannot help that. The extra evidence of the casket is icing but if you don't believe the main evidence, than I guess you won't believe the rest no matter how much there is.
Hi Chap,
Paul, Mark and Luke to my knowlege never met Jesus, Paul had a vision or expierence of him somewhere on a road.
James, Matthew, and John Perhaps did, but the writings attributed to them, have been shown to most likely not have been written by any of these men. So we really do not have a written record of an eyewitness.
The only writings that can be shown to be written by a particular person for sure is Pauls writings, Pretty much all the rest are pseudopigraphical, thereby making them useless for Practical evidence of Jesus existance.
Seedy
Chap,
untill archaeoligical evidence proves that the genocide recorded in Matthew did not happen, then I'll believe it.
How could archaelogical evidence PROVE babied werent murdered?.......dig up the graves of all the dead at that time and see if there was a bunch of babies buried there? How on earth could archaeology prove something didn't happen? What you just said was ridiculous!
Gumby
