Causing divisions is doing God's will!

by rebel 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  rebel

  I was speaking to hubby tonight. I was explaining why I can't and won't go back to the KH. I tried to explain my feelings as best I could without annoying him or making him feel upset. I mentioned many issues including the shunning policy and the fact that the WTS encourages families to break up because of it. He read me the following:

  Matt 10:33-39 "..but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man's enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it."

  I tried to explain that Jesus was just emphasising the importance of following him whole-souled if you truly wanted to be acceptable to him, but I didn't think he meant he wanted to break up families - the family unit is important to God.

  What else could I have said? I was a bit stumped by this scripture. I know many of you don't believe in the Bible. I am still in the process of looking into it, but I would like to give him a scriptural answer because that is all he will listen to. What exactly did Jesus mean by those words? Hubby thinks it means that, if you leave the 'truth', you must expect to be shunned by your family. He said the family are not doing anything wrong by shunning a wayward one - the person leaving is the guilty party and must take full responsibility for whatever happens to them.

  I'd appreciate any help you can give. I know what I want to say but I can't think of the words or other scriptures to back up what I say.

  xxR
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  OUTLAW

  Cause divisions in a family no problem,it`s gods will...Cause divisions at the Kingdom Hall,it`s the work of Satan..You would be disfellowshiped in a heartbeat for doing to them,what they would do to you without a second thought...OUTLAW
• 

  rebel

  I totally agree with you Outlaw. I know what a bunch of hypocrites are running this cult. That's why I want to try to get my husband to see reason. I want him to see the answers for himself from the Bible because that is the only thing he would be willing to listen to. He is really into the 'truth' and is so indoctrinated, it is difficult to get through to him without using the Bible.

  xxR
• 

  neyank

  "Matt 10:33-39 "..but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man's enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it."
  
  Rebel,
  
  The only thing I can say about the WTS using this scripture is phooey!!!!!
  
  Over and over and over again, the WTS tries to say that disagreeing with them is going against God.
  
  OK. Let's take part of the scripture above:
  "but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens.
  
  
  I don't know about you, but to me, I believe Jesus is talking about Himself.
  NOT the WTS.
  
  It Doesn't say:
  "but whoever disowns the WTS before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens.
  
  There is already an abundant amount of documented proof that proves beyond a doubt that the WTS does not and never has spoken for God.
  
  I know it's been said over and over again but the fact is, the WTS IS a cult.
  In fact, alot what they do goes against the teachings of Jesus.
  
  The proof is there for anyone that wishes to, can see it.
  
  Many cults say the same thing the WTS says.
  
  If you don't belong to us, God will destroy you.
  
  neyank
• 

  rebel

  Neyank,

  Thank you for this. I got so tied up with trying to think of reasons to explain why Jesus didn't want to cause divisions, I completely lost my thread and didn't stop to think that this is not referring to the WTS at all. I must try to remember to keep this at the front of my mind - that the scriptures used by the WTS to refer to themselves are actually referring to God or Jesus.

  It is easy to see this now. It is not so easy to keep a clear head when my husband is staring at me accusingly with smoke coming out of his nostrils.

  xxR
• 

  ScoobySnax

  Rebel. I honestly do feel for you if you are having problems in your life or matters of conscience. I don't know your personal circumstances, and more importantly how you are feeling right now, so what I say, I say with respect, and do not wish to hurt you "any further" than you already may feel. You really have to make that decision about what you want to do, or maybe you just need to stand back and take a breather. If you do feel that you no longer want to follow what your husband tells you, or more importantly how you feel, then that has to be your choice. He is quoting to you from the Bible what Jesus said about those who would "disown" Him. I am sure he tells you this because he loves you and is trying to get you to see why he believes that which he does. Jesus did say as you quote that all must follow Him whole souled, and this is what your husband believes he is doing in following the JWs, I have to agree with him on this. I haven't followed that direction, hence I stay away, so as not to be "disrespectful" this coupled with my easy ol' life of doing as I please, and it is more than easy to sustain. Many here will tell you of how awful the JWs are and the experiences they have had with them, some in only for a few months, others over many many years.I'd never intentionally try to discredit these people, most are far more more experienced than me. And many have very sad stories to tell. You must however learn to take this experience and many others within the context its set. This is an ex JW forum, you will hear what you may want to hear here,if that fits with you. This forum will never be mainstream and will always remain a smaller dissenting group within the "main" of JWs. In turn JWs will always remain a small dissenting group within society at large.

  What you have to do Rebel, is decide exactly what you want for yourself. Listen to this group here and find many good people, but equally listen to your husband too, and try and see what he is trying to tell you. You have to live your life rebel, and choose just what feels comfortable to you at the end of the day. Eitherway, there will always be someone who will give you a hearing ear, and some help when you need it, so try not to worry!!. and take care. Scott
• 

  Chap

  rebel,

  I was never a JW. I don't know if this line of reasoning will help but gently try this. Ask him if something is true like "is the sky blue?" Try asking him questions until you get him to admit that everything that exists is "the truth." You may know this scripture from memory. John 14:6
  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (KJV) (underlining mine)

  Ask him to explain how Jesus is not claiming to be none other than God and not Michael the Archangel as Watchtower claims. You may also ask him how the watchtower is not "disowning" Jesus by lying about who he says he is. Another scripture is John 8:58
  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Here Jesus claims to have existed forever. Notice it doesn't say he was created before Abraham. I hope this helps and gives you strength.

  You also may want to take the strategy of going to the KH. See 1st Peter 3. By doing this and your husband knowing that you think the organization is a lie might eat him up on the inside. This might take time and a lot of patience but it might work better than arguing with him all the time. He will not be able to say that you are divisive. Remember, God sees all and you need not fill out time cards. Hehe.
• 

  Francois

  Here is a source of many, many "crates" of ammunition to used against the Borg:

  http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/oral.htm

  Now, you're armed and ready.

  francois
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  A Paduan

  Well, upholding the truth is anyway.

  Rebel, l ike chap said, the sky is blue, and if your husband wants to insist that it's green and expects you to follow, so as to fulfill some imagined duty to do what he's supposed to, you just can't be expected to choose his way over what you know.

  Christ was speaking to people who were in a society brow beaten by those who claimed to speak for God: including all the man made rules (burdens) that went with it. The better part within people informed them that those rules must be horseshit, but hey, they spoke for God, didn't they? Christ reminded them that if they succumbed to believing that horseshit was actually truth, while attempting to avoid certain losses, then they weren't worthy like those who were fair-dinkum, and said it like it was, regardless of consequences. Kinda like the boy on 'emperors new clothes'.

  Trouble is, it seems at the moment that your husband loves his new family more than truth - like those who wanted the emperor's favour - but you know he's naked.

  It's a simple statement really.

  paduan
• 

  rebel

  ScoobySnax - thanks for your comments. I know you still view the WTS as having the truth, going by your past posts. But I am convinced they don't. I know I am right and hubby is wrong. It is hard to watch someone you care about swearing allegiance to a cult. I try to be mild. I don't start arguments - I just stick up for my opinion. I know the WTS is not the true religion and I won't live a lie any longer.

  Chap - thanks for your mild and reasonable comments. I really don't go out of my way to be argumentative. I just answer when he asks me questions and the discussion can get quite heated.

  Francois - interesting article. I will read it in more detail later. Not sure what hubby will make of it.

  A Paduan - I agree. My husband can't see the wood for the trees. He is so 'in' the organisation he can't see or think anything else. I suppose I need to be patient and see what happens. But it gets me so agitated - especially the pressure to attend meetings. He is as convinced he is right as I am that he is wrong.

  Thanks for all your help.

  xxR