Oh. So You're A Seventy-Fiver Then, Are You?

by Englishman 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • dmouse
    dmouse

    RE: 2005 as the next date to look forward to.

    Yes, this stems from the Watchtower of Sept 15 1997.
    Page 14, paragraph 21 states: ‘God has been using the anointed for over sixty years now’ (since 1935). The Society subliminally link this to a comment in paragraph 10 about Elijah’s term of serving (70 years) thus suggesting that the day of Jehovah may come in modern day 70CE.

    1935 + 70 = 2005

    Of course, the society can never openly say that is what they mean – they have to leave it to the bro’s to read between the lines…it is certain that they will, as you say, the R&F need the proverbial carrot of an imminent Armageddon to keep going. When 2005 passes without the end coming the Society can say “well, we never said it would come then...it’s was just a few who, eager to see the end…etc etc” (you’ve heard it before).

    See also Watchtower Oct 1st 1997. ‘Confident in Kingdom Hope’ Page 23 – reinforces idea of importance of 1935.

    How many times over the next century are we going to see JWs hopes rise and then become dashed?

    Why can’t they see how manipulated they are?

    Because they don’t want to. They cannot break free of the psychological opium of religion.

    Faith, it matters not in what, soothes away the pain of reality.

    Dean.

    Have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth?

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    You had to be around pre '75 to understand what the atmosphere was like back then. It was akin to the build up to a World cup football tournament, everyone who was involved was buzzing with it.

    'Course, in the late '60's, there was another side of the prediction that benefitted adulterous believers. You could have extra-marital sex in the sure knowledge that you wouldn't be called to account for it until '75, lotsa time to repent!

    Englishman

  • slipnslidemaster
    slipnslidemaster
    In addition to that, I remember about 2 months ago that I was fiddling with my calculator and twisting time prophesys to try and get a date that was in the near future (who hasn't done that before) and I somehow got the date 2004. Can't remember how I got it though.

    Well... if you fiddle with 1914 + a generation at it's logical extreme (89) = 2003. Let's say 90 years just to be conservative = 2004. However, that is such a sticky wicket, just to be safe we will change the definition of "this generation"!!

    However, the 1935 + 70 years thing is very interesting to me because I've never heard that before. The sealing of the 144,000 is interesting because there are serveral "younger" members serving on the GB now. This means that if you were born in 1935, the youngest you can be to be annointed is 66. I wonder how old the youngest GB member is?

    You watch, 1935 will be relaxed soon too.

    . o O (slipnslidemaster)

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Englishman: Thanks for posting this topic. It is another one of my bugaboos. You are so right when you said:

    You had to be around pre '75 to understand what the atmosphere was like back then

    I too remember the hype brought on by brothers' talks and suggestions in the articles and books and the results like:

    -ones saying to householders in service that this may be the last time I will be here to speak to you before the coming end

    -ones who felt guilty trying to sell long-term life insurance or not seeing the need to buy it

    -having co's in their talks, mark off the days and months on the calendars showing how much time was left to 1975

    -I personally worried about having a small child at that time and not wanting another one before 1975 for fear of "woe to the pregnant woman and those nursing a baby in the tribulation" warning

    -seeing those who sold their houses to full-time preach before the end

    -hearing other JWs say if they bought a house now, they would never have to pay it off.

    For everyone who never experienced that time in the org. before 1975, just try to imagine what it would be like to grow up truly believing that you would never grow old....and what a shock to the system it is now to be pushing 50 and have grandchildren.

    I could go on and on..

    What makes me mad at myself is, I fell into the trap of blaming ourselves for "running ahead of the org. because they never said 1975 would bring Armageddon". I try to find the humour in all of it, but I know I would have done things so differently if I hadn't believed in that foolishness.

    And I know there are many out there who blame Ray Franz for the misleading info. and so have pushed all the hype and excitement out of their minds. They have no clue.

    Had Enough

  • somebody
    somebody

    TheApostleAK,

    You said:

    I'm glad Freddie Franz gave the witnesses a hammering about 75. (Even though he sorta started it.) The R&F were the one's that flogged it. The Org when along with it cos of all the enthusiasm. That's my opinion of it all.

    Does all the following spiritual food that was fed to the R&F by the so called "faithful and discreet slave" living in NewYork have anything to do with R&F "flogging it" ? Do ya think?

    Watchtower 10/15/66

    "Only a liberated people can preach a release to captives, conventioners were told in the speech "Preach a Release to the Captives," which thrilled them with its hopeful outlook. "Jehovah, the God of freedom and liberty, has freed his people from Babylonish bondage and has given them a work of liberation to do. That work of liberation and salvation must go on to the finish! To give aid today in this critical time to prospective sons of God," announced President Knorr, "a new book in English, entitled 'Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God,' has been published." At all assembly points where it was released, the book was received enthusiastically. Crowds gathered around stands and soon supplies of the book were depleted. Immediately its contents were examined. It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home!"

    Watchtower 1/1/67

    (This article titled Have You Read Your Copy? it was encouraging people to read their copy of their Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God! book yet...)

    "But, without a doubt, nothing has created more interest in this textbook than the first chapter with its chart and fine information regarding the 7,000 years of God's rest day. The observation that 1975 may well mark the beginning of mankind's great Jubilee has intrigued many."

    Watchtower 4/15/67

    According to a more recent calculation of the Bible timetable, six thousand years of man's existence will end in the latter half of the year 1975, which is well within this century.

    Watchtower 5/1/67

    "Interestingly, the autumn of the year 1975 marks the end of 6,000 years of human experience. This is ascertainable from reliable chronology preserved in the Bible itself. What will that year mean for humankind? Will it be the time when God executes the wicked and starts off the thousand-year reign of his Son Jesus Christ? It very well could, but we will have to wait to see. Yet of this we can be certain: the generation that Jesus said would witness those events is nearing its close. The time is close at hand. On God's "timetable" we are in the closing days of a wicked system of things that will soon be gone forever. A glorious new order is immediately before us."

    Watchtower 5/1/68

    5 Therefore, God's seventh day and the time man has been on earth apparently run parallel. To calculate where man is in the stream of time relative to God's seventh day of 7,000 years, we need to determine how long a time has elapsed from the year of Adam and Eve's creation in 4026 B.C.E. From the autumn of that year to the autumn of 1 B.C.E., there would be 4,025 years. From the autumn of 1 B.C.E. to the autumn of 1 C.E. is one year (there was no zero year). From the autumn of 1 C.E. to the autumn of 1967 is a total of 1,966 years. Adding 4,025 and 1 and 1,966, we get 5,992 years from the autumn of 4026 B.C.E. to the autumn of 1967. Thus, eight years remain to account for a full 6,000 years of the seventh day. Eight years from the autumn of 1967 would bring us to the autumn of 1975, fully 6,000 years into God's seventh day, his rest day.

    Watchtower 8/15/68

    "29 After much of the mathematics and genealogies, really, of what benefit is this information to us today? Is it not all dead history, as uninteresting and profitless as walking through a cemetery copying old dates off tombstones? After all, why should we be any more interested in the date of Adam's creation than in the birth of King Tut? Well, for one thing, if 4,026 is added to 1,968 (allowing for the lack of a zero year between C.E. and B.C.E.) one gets a total of 5,993 years, come this autumn, since Adam's creation. That means, in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now (and not in 1997 as would be the case if Ussher's figures were correct), it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam, the father of all mankind!"

    Watchtower 5/1/70

    "However, Bible chronology which indicates that Adam was created in the fall of the year 4026 B.C.E. would bring us down to the year 1975 C.E. as the date marking 6,000 years of human history with yet 1,000 years to come for Christ's Kingdom rule. So whatever the date for the end of this system, it is clear that the time left is reduced, with only approximately six years left until the end of 6,000 years of human history.(1 Cor. 7:29) "

    Watchtower 12/15/74

    "To advertise the divine name still further, on March 1, 1939, some months before World War II broke out, the official magazine of the Witnesses came forth with the new legend, "The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom." And now, as the critical year of 1975 enters, it may well be asked: Has the Most High God of prophecy made a name for himself? The answer is self-evident, Yes! By whom? Not by Christendom or by Jewry, but by Jehovah's Christian witnesses!"

    "And now, as the year 1975 opens up, some thousands of the anointed remnant, still alive on this earth, look ahead to realizing that joyful prospect. The increasing "great crowd" of their sheeplike companions look forward with them to entering the New Order without interruption of life."

    Watchtower 7/15/76

    "11 It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. "

    "15 But it is not advisable for us to set our sights on a certain date, neglecting everyday things we would ordinarily care for as Christians, such as things that we and our families really need. We may be forgetting that, when the "day" comes, it will not change the principle that Christians must at all times take care of all their responsibilities. If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises."

    Watchtower 3/15/80

    "If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises." In saying "anyone," The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah's Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date."

    the end of quotes..........

    peace,
    somebody

  • Moxy
    Moxy
    I personally worried about having a small child at that time and not wanting another one before 1975 for fear of "woe to the pregnant woman and those nursing a baby in the tribulation" warning

    im curious about this. i was born in 72 and my sis in 74 to faithful JW parents. were there stigmas attached to having kids at that time? (more than the usual stigmas) could someone who remembers comment on this?

    mox

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Hi Moxy:

    I don't know if I'd call it 'stigmas' or just silently wondering "what are they thinking bringing a child into the world at this time?" or sisters murmuring among themselves, but not an actual 'marking' that I can remember. At least in my area...but of course, things differed from cong. to cong.

    For example, I never personally experienced the marking of the calendar I spoke of, but my friends in my present area, remember it vividly by their co, but I experienced the 'life insurance sales' and the 'warnings to the householders' etc.

    I just know that from what I heard at meetings and especially assemblies, it was not a good idea to put yourself in that situation of the pregnant woman etc. It made me feel like I would be testing God to ignore the warnings and have a child then. The child I had in '71 was not planned so I purposely waited 'til after '75 to have another. That's how much of an impact the whole "hype" had on me personally.

    Had Enough

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    G'day AK,

    AK you're dead wrong - it wasn't the rank and file but the society itself that promoted the date, then refused point blank to take responsibility. I never preached 1975 but I was unusual. (my sights were set on 1984 :) Mixed signals came from Watchtower HQ but when the 'final Kingdom News' tract work comenced in 1973 it left no doubt the Society believed the world was soon to end. You've been lied to once again AK. I doubt many JWs speak about that final preaching work nowerdays (where every householder HAD to accept a tract and bible studies HAD to be reduced to 6 months followed by baptism or death at Armageddon.

    All said, 1975 never changed the Bethel Nazi mindset - they still preach the same American/Adventist lies they have for over 120 years "we are living in the last days, Jesus is angry, repent and sell magazines, time is short blah blah blah ...
    "
    Serving Jehovah, even though he's a sick, pathetic joke unclebruce

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Hi Unclebruce:

    And your're dead right!!! We, the r&f, only thought that way because of what the GB was saying and directing the CO's and DO's to tell us.

    What else were we to think with the constant reminder of "how close 1975 is" and relating experiences in the KM of what "some were doing in these last days like selling their houses and possessions to pioneer for the short time remaining".

    I can remember conventions where the CO held up a paper-contructed clock showing the hands at 11:59 saying "see..we're that close to the end", comparing it to being 1 minute 'til doomsday, and saying "the new system is no longer around the corner, but is now at our doorstep".

    The GB truly cashed in on the first enthusiasm shown in the info in the 'Life Everlasting-Freedom' book. The GB just 'ran with the ball' after that and scored wherever they could.

    Had Enough

  • somebody
    somebody

    Hi Englishman,

    I only recall hearing lots of talk about 1975 being armageddon time. I never shared in spreading that prediction because I was scared to death at the time. I remember hearing all the things HadEnough heard. I was only 14 at the time. All I constantly thought about was that I was going to die with all the worldy people, and how much it would hurt my parents. With constant talks about having "impure" thoughts, and falling into "secret sin" being very wicked, greedy, grosss, unatural etc....I figured I was a gonner for sure when the big A arrived. Funny how ya can't stop some "sins" even with the threat of death hanging over you! the WBTS could have at least referred to them as NATURAL sins, if they felt the need to catagorize them as sins. Anyhoo, I'm getting way off topic again. As far has anyone taking responsibilty for the prediction, it should be the WBTS! If you notice in the quotes I provided for ApostleAK, the society worked up the rand and file from at least 1966, to 1974. So that was for at least 8 years. This quote from the 1974 watchtower is my favorite...

    "And now, as the critical year of 1975 enters, it may well be asked: Has the Most High God of prophecy made a name for himself? The answer is self-evident, Yes! By whom? Not by Christendom or by Jewry, but by Jehovah's Christian witnesses!"

    I just love it!

    Instead of being so damn proud by the time 1980 rolled around,the society then tried to word this pathetic excuse for an apolgy..."If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises." In saying "anyone," The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah's Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date."

    So... right after blaming the rank and file..... suddenly the society isn't the FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE at all! They are now only mere PERSONS HAVING TO DO WITH the publications. And what they published wasn't SPRITUAL FOOD any longer either. It was now INFORMATION THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE BUILDUP OF HOPES centered around that date! I wish they would have kept referring to themselves as "persons having to do with the publications" now, considering that's all they are. God forbid they ever be honest. And if they would have stopped contributing to the buildup of false hopes back then in 1980, they wouldn't be a billion dollar business today. One thing I can say about the society is that they aren't stupid. My blood is starting to boil again. ... gee..you have a knack for bringing up good subjects! And it's interesting to read all the replys on what they were feeling back then as 1975 neared. We were all at different stages in out lives back then. Kids, teens, and adults. So we all faced the approaching 1975 with different thoughts and fears.

    Thanks again, Englishman. I found the perfect signature!

    peace,
    somebody

    "And now, as the critical year of 1975 enters, it may well be asked: Has the Most High God of prophecy made a name for himself? The answer is self-evident, Yes! By whom? Not by Christendom or by Jewry, but by Jehovah's Christian witnesses!"~~ WBTS....December 15,1974

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