Faith V Works.....my 2 cents.. (page 2)

crossroads

Evil doer had no works. He was saved by faith and faith
only or an I not reading that account right?

i think when ppl debate that aspect of the Faith vs. Works issue they are confusing the issue. For instance when Paul was discussing the sacrifice of Christ and it's significance to salvation he was making the point that all of the acrifices were in effect a mere shadow of the true propitiatory sacrifice of Christ. Back then there were Jews who wanted Christians to observe the many obligations of the Mosaic Law also. They held it was essential for salvation. Paul went through much to combat this erroneous view. I feel in combating this he went to extremes in his use of hyperbole when talking about our role in salvation.

Yes, from a technical view we can ascertain that there is nothing we can do to make ourselves righteous before God. However I feel we can do much to make that standing before God all the more sure. And of course we are not exempt from losing it either.

The real gist of what Paul was saying is that for the Christian the only foundation he needs for his faith is Jesus Christ period. It is based on no other obligation rather than to have faith in Jesus and everything he did while on this planet. Most significantly his death and what it accomplishes for the whole world of mankind. This faith would naturally encourage the person to do the works Jesus did to his full capabilities. Ther would be no need for anything othe than that to spur him on.

Peace:
Bigboi

"..... anyone who ignores everyday reality in order to live up to an ideal will soon discover he had been taught how to destroy himself, not how to preserve himself." The Prince. Niccolo Machiavelli.

TheApostleAK

BigBoi: BINGO!

"Evil doer had no works. He was saved by faith and faith
only or an I not reading that account right?"

This man couldn't have shown good WORKS. That will happen during the kingdom reign. That's why Jesus let him in. Cos the evil doer believed that the kingdom would have righteousness in it and he wouldn't do "dead works" ever again.

Half assed. I know. Stuck 4 words at the moment.

crossroads

AK are you saying the evil doer needs good works in
the kingdom? If so is he any different then the man
hanging on the other side-for won't he be there too?
I don't care where the coma is I want to know the
different rewards between the two? Jesus did tell
the one with FAITH no works he will be with him in
Paradise?I'm confused does the one with FAITH
get nothing extra for HIS FAITH in the LORD?

jst2laws

Hi Bigboi
>” Yes, from a technical view we can ascertain that there is nothing we can do to make ourselves righteous before God. However I feel we can do much to make that standing before God all the more sure. And of course we are not exempt from losing it either.”

Yes, that standing of righteousness is very insecure if the stand is not backed up with works demonstrating our faith and love. But since these works are not works of obedience to some code they must spring from the heart. Without actions motivated from the heart, our faith is dead. We may actually end up doing some of the things we resented others telling us to do, but now it will be works of faith rather than works of obedience. In this sense these works not only “make that standing before God all the more sure”, they are vital to the “standing”.

AK, hello again,
Crossroads made a beautiful, and simply stated point. And you got it right, that man had no opportunity to demonstrate his faith, but he had it at his death. If he would have somehow survived that day, he hopefully would have left the “dead works” of justification by living up to a code and demonstrated his faith in the ransom and the message of Jesus by his spontaneous actions showing faith and love.(Rom 3:27)

If it sounds like I love this subject, your right. Thanks for the posts

Jst2laws

outnfree

I agree with Bigboi that faith impels one to do good works.

Crossroads and all,
I don't think the evil-doer was saved by faith only. As soon as the other criminal mocked Jesus, the FAITH of the evil-doer was clear:

"[He] spoke up and rebuked him. 'Have you no fear of God at all?' he said. ... 'Jesus remember me when you come into your kingdom.'" -- Luke 23:40-42, JB

To me, the rebuking of his fellow criminal was the work following the evil-doer's faith in Jesus as God's Messiah. The resulting plea after his rebuking work was his hope that his faith would be rewarded.

outnfree

crossroads

J-2-L
I love this subject too.I believe faith in OUR LORD is all
that is required. Having said that you will them exhibit
Christ like love. Now none of us can raise the dead and
make the blind see. Nor for most of us are our lives as
free as the SONS was. But each one of us once having
FAITH and still being humanly alive must show LOVE
for the 'least of these me brothers'.Even if that only means
bring home a bowl of rice to feed your family with. Thus
showing love for your family and others who can now
go on to feed more people of need.

What is LOVE anyway. I know this if your hungry and
outdoors it sure isn't loving to give me a watchtower
and say may god bless read this and you'll see what
Jehovah is going to do for you.
Although if I had a match it might keep my little one
warm enough until she falls asleep. Any extra back
issues you looking to get rid of?
Peace and Love
Mark

crossroads

outnfree-I'm happy you are
"The resulting plea was his hope that his faith would
be rewarded" Seems to me you have a lot of assumptions
tied up in that little gem. His FAITH was clear but I beg to
differ about the so called works you gave.In your sentence
the way you wrote it the evil doers 'good works'are very
selfserving are they not?

If you think rebuking someone shortly before they die is a
"good work". I'm sure McVieh will be happy to respond
favorably to any and all rebukes you would like to give him.
Can you feel the LOVE.

jst2laws

Outnfree

>"I agree with Bigboi that faith impels one to do good works.
Crossroads and all,
I don't think the evil-doer was saved by faith only. As soon as the other criminal mocked Jesus, the FAITH of the evil-doer was clear:
"[He] spoke up and rebuked him. 'Have you no fear of God at all?' he said. ... 'Jesus remember me when you come into your kingdom.'" -- Luke 23:40-42, JB"

Excellent. When the thought was presented about the evildoer it was so simple I didn’t bother to look it up.
You have pointed out a valid detail. It would be very rare that a person would have no opportunity to demonstrate his faith. His was no great act nor sacrifice to speak up but it was a response of good words apparently from his heart.
Thanks for pointing that out
Jst2laws

bigboi

Hey All:

jst2laws:

Yes what you said is true. It all depends on the heart. That's what I feel jesus was really interested in. He wanted ppl to do good and to serve God cause they wanted to, not because thy were obligated too or because they were afraid of what might happen to them if they didn't. He was in no way controlling or condemnatory. He just wanted to help ppl become better individuals, and ain't nuthin wrong with dat.

"..... anyone who ignores everyday reality in order to live up to an ideal will soon discover he had been taught how to destroy himself, not how to preserve himself." The Prince. Niccolo Machiavelli.

Faith V Works.....my 2 cents..

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