by minimus 45 Replies latest jw friends
The WTS seldom produces 'good' people though it does produce 'righteous' ones. When it finds a 'good' person it carefullyand methodically processes this person to the point where their goodness is triumphantly over-shadowed by their righteousness, often self-righteousness. At this point it then labels them 'True Christians'.
HS
This thread interests me. Most feel that the JW's are only 'good" either because they're afraid of the cosequences or because they, as individuals, are good people no matter what their religion is.
It is a mistake to label any group as a whole, as either good or bad. Instead of Jehovah's Witnesses, insert Catholics, or Jews, or African-Americans. Do you see what I mean? It just doesn't work. You look at what an individual does and then decide whether or not that person is someone you want anything to do with. Is that individual's moral standards and personality on par with your own. Everyone has to make their own determination of course, but it is a mistaken premise to judge an entire group based on the actions of individuals.
Minimus,
You said:
"The majority want to do good but they are stifled because they must wait for the go ahead from the elders and Society before they can exercise their humanity."
I think you are right on with this statement.
I think most JWs are good decent people.
The problem is just what you said.
The elders, per the WTS, take the goodness that people have and directs it any way they choose.
Which is being at the meetings and selling magazines.
So the average JW must decide to either be a good JW and do what the WTS says a good JW does or think for him/her self and be frowned upon for not towing the party line.
So yes. They are stifled in a big way.
neyank
BigTex,
Is that individual's moral standards and personality on par with your own.
I am largely in areement with you, on the proviso that we must acknowledge that JW's moral standards are seldom 'invidual' but are established as a group standard. This lies at the root of the what constitutes a 'righteous man' and a 'good man'. A righteous man, as do most JW's, would shun his close family members against all natural laws, to obey a group morality.
I would be the first to admit that JW's as a group are very righteous people by neccessity. They are removed for not being such. As to 'goodness' - well, see my post above. JW's are only as 'good' as the WTS allows them to be. Often their reactions are tied tightly to the social commands in the most recent Watchtower. This flies against the basic meaning of 'goodness'.
Best regards - HS
Depends on your definition.
Basically, I think that Jehovah's Witnesses are the largest organized group of neurotic personalities to be found anywhere on the face of the planet.
In order to be susceptible to the blandishments of cult reasoning, one must suffer particular sorts of mental problems and negative attitudes, generally characterized by: alienation, isolation, desire for revenge, feelings of unworthiness, convictions of guilt and worthlessness, a desire to lose one's worthless life in something larger and on a grand scale. (For full details, see Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer")
There are "good" people in the JWs. There were "good" people serving as guards at Aushwitz and Bergen-Belsen. But basically, no, I do not think that any given JW is a "good" person. Read through the posts here dealing with people's experiences while they were JWs and experience the: backstabbing, the gossiping, the outright lying, the rejection, shunning, of one's own family members, the self-righteousness, the holier-than-thou attitudes, and above all, above all of these things the one most common identifing characteristic of any given congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses - the utter, total, and complete lack of love. The very thing that The Master said would be the identifying characteristic of his true followers, the love for one another, is totally missing, not there, empty, kaput, false, phony, and utterly destitute.
Good? I don't think so.
francois
The WTS seldom produces 'good' people though it does produce 'righteous' ones. When it finds a 'good' person it carefullyand methodically processes this person to the point where their goodness is triumphantly over-shadowed by their righteousness, often self-righteousness. At this point it then labels them 'True Christians'.
Well that just about sums it up.
I think some of them have good motives but even these are stained by self rightousness.
They (the majority at least) are also good at being cowards, afraid to even slightly critisise the GB and weak because they literally shake at the thought of displeasing the elders.
Brummie
They are ALL programmed to act and react the exact same way to anything that comes their way. Honestly as long as they remain jw's we'll never know if their good or bad, because basically each and every one of them is the same boring dull self-righteous person. And as long as one is a jw, then they are ALL STUPID LOVELESS BASTARDS!!!!
I think most Witnesses would be described by most people that know them as "good." I think the crystal ball reading by some of the posters as they confidently decry their motives is no different than the Organization's attributing the worst possible motive to most people's actions. I guess you are well trained.
PorkChop,
I think most Witnesses would be described by most people that know them as "good."
'Most Witnesses' by 'most people'...I presume you mean the 'most people' to be those who are not Witnesses? They can hardly be the judge of what a person is like at heart when that person has been programmed to act in a certain way in their presence.
You need to ask 'most persons' what they would think of the same person if they were to know that that person felt that God was going to kill them shortly in a sort of worlwide 9/11 because they were not Jehovah's Witnesses. What if they were told that that the same person who they thought was 'good', would totally cut ties with any member of his family if that requirement was demanded of them by the WTS.
They would very quickly redefine the way that they viewed 'most Witnesses', especially in the 'good' department.
HS
