I have been reading about dinosaurs and other contemporaneous animals and have repeatedly encountered examples of physical malformation (diseased or deformed bone and teeth)and evidence of bone cancer over 100 million years ago. Does this not refute the position held by JWs that disease resulted from Adam's sin? comments?
Dino cancer
by peacefulpete 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Gopher
Well, the way I see it, God FOREKNEW that Adam would sin against him and cause sickness and death.
Based on that foreknowledge, God had no choice but to impute sinfulness and its symptoms, disease and death, to the animal kingdom, untold millions of years before he created Adam.
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Robdar
Does this not refute the position held by JWs that disease resulted from Adam's sin? comments?
It refutes all Christian religion claims that disease and death resulted from Adam's sin. I have never been able to understand why Christians believe the Adam and Eve myth.
Robyn
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Swan
I have never been able to understand why Christians believe the Adam and Eve myth.
If Adam and Eve never existed, they never brought sin into the world. If there was no sin by perfect man, there is no need for a ransom sacrifice. Maybe a Christian out there can explain it better, but it seems to me that this is the whole basis of their religion.
Interestingly, other cultures had stories of sin and redemption too. It is a common archetype in myth and storytelling, and a very compelling one. There are certain archetypes that occur over and over because of the simple fact that they strike a chord deep within us. The sin and redemption archetype is very psychologically appealing to people.
Tammy
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Dino
Whew!
I thought for a minute there that you knew something I didnt...
Dino
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freeman
Wow that was a close one, eh Dino. Glad to here you escaped that one.
A few weeks ago we had to put the family dog to sleep as she had incurable cancer, in fact her swollen glands in her neck were making it very difficult for her to breath and eat.
She was a purebred black lab with a wonderful personality. She was completely black except around her chin as her hairs were starting to turn gray in recent years. Long before we knew the dog was sick, I used this living example to plant a seed in the mind of my devoutly Dub wife by asking a simple question: Why do you suppose animals get gray hair when they get older and even die of the same aliments people die of? She look at me dumbfounded and said she never thought of that.
I guess when Adam sinned, his DNA was damaged and it was passed on to his offspring, and since all the animals living back then were essentially the Adam and Eve family pets, their DNA was also effected too. Yep I’m sure that’s how it happened.
I wonder if one day the light will suddenly go on and she will see the folly at the root of this myth. I doubt it, but one can always hope.
Freeman
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free will
i never thought about it that way either. i'm not sure if i'm ready to tackle that mountain on top of this whole fading away thing. myth, huh?!
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Robdar
Long before we knew the dog was sick, I used this living example to plant a seed in the mind of my devoutly Dub wife by asking a simple question: Why do you suppose animals get gray hair when they get older and even die of the same aliments people die of? She look at me dumbfounded and said she never thought of that.
Freeman,
That is a question that I have asked too. I have never gotten an answer. Hey, if you get an answer before me, let me know. Okay?
Interestingly, other cultures had stories of sin and redemption too. It is a common archetype in myth and storytelling, and a very compelling one.
Swan,
I am aware of archetypes and myths. My question for you is why is that myth so compelling?
Why can't Christians accept that perhaps, we (including the animals) were put here only for a short time? Why can't Christians accept that we were never meant to live forever? Why is it so distateful to them?
IMO, some people cannot accept death. They don't trust the Creator to have something other planned for us than existence on earth.
I am a Christian, btw. I do not look at the cruxifiction as a "ransom sacrifice" of a perfect man to repay the sins of another perfect man. I look at Christ, as God incarnate, as coming here, to earth, to teach us basic truths. The truth that we must love one another because Love is the language that we must speak in order to communicate with God and that death is not all that we fear it to be.
I do not look at his cruxifiction as him redeeming us to him but his way of redeeming himself to us. Many people fear death and get angry at God because death exists. Coming to earth to be cruxified was God's way of telling us that he was not too good to go through death himself in order to show us that we will live again.
Robyn-- of the waiting to be flamed by the fundies class.
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proplog2
The concept of "original" sin is essential to human progress. I don't believe in original sin. I prefer to call it "intrinsic sin". Organisms couldn't exist without a membrane - a wall separating inner from outer. In the growth of a fetus it is the outer layer - ectoderm of the blastula - that forms into the nervous system and brain. Our ego is our psychological boundary. Selfishness is the root of evolutionary progress. But humans have gotten to the point that they either shed their preoccupation with boundary - or they are going to destroy themselves. The message of Christ was that all humans need to unite. The one redeeming factor about JW's is that they have an excellent worldwide brotherhood.
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freeman
Free Will: Do the fade thing and don’t pay to much attention to anyone’s words, particularly mine. The literal Adam and Eve creation /sin passed on to all descendants idea as presented by the Watchtower was always a sore point with me and one in which I always had to never completely level with myself intellectually because to do so could damage my entire belief system, the JW belief system that is. Remember, the JW belief system is inflexible and all knowing, and any deviation from that “present truth” is viewed with suspicion.
The validity of your particular belief system or non-belief has nothing to do with intellect or education whatsoever. What matters is what makes you comfortable and what seems to be correct from your point of view at a particular moment in time. For me, I feel that being a moral person, avoiding doing harm to others whenever possible, and trying to leave this world a little better then I found it is fundamental to my current belief system. What does that make me? If that makes me a Christian, that’s fine with me; if it makes me a Buddhist, that’s OK too. That said however, I won’t be saddled by a particular label.
I don’t like labels because I associate labels with the exclusive club mentality that often seems to accompany such membership. I did myself and my family great harm by joining a club that turned out to be a really bad one. Obviously I am not very good at choosing clubs. And because of my poor track record, I don’t want to be a member of any club at this time. That’s just me and my way of doing it, and what is good for you may be completely different. I wish you peace and success in your journey to find the truth.
Freeman