WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon 865 Replies latest social current

  • Realist
    Realist

    thichi,

    first of all i was talking about the west bank and the gaza strip...but since you broadened the topic...

    where do you always find this nonsense and biased articles???

    Jewish independence in the Land of Israel lasted for more than 400 years. This is much longer than Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States. 4 In fact, if not for foreign conquerors, Israel would be 3,000 years old today.

    for instance what is the point of this statement? if the jews wouldn'T have overrun whoever lived in that region prior to them than that state would now be 3400 years old! so what??? can every nation who lost a territory back in history (in this case almost 2000 !!!!!!!!! years ago) claim back that land? can the indians claim back their land from the US? can the germans claim back their land from the poles? can the italians claim back their empire??? claiming that jews have the right to be there because it was originally jewish land (2000 years ago!!!!) is pure bullshit.

    Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:

    this is the next completely irrelevant and stupid argument...becasue there was no paletinian state the arabs have no right to the land. what kind of logic is that? is that the same logic that allowed the europeans to whipe out the indians? just because it was not an independend state doesn'T mean you can deport the people from their land! the arabs surely didn'T want to be ruled by jews.

    Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.

    of course it is a post WWI phenomenon....prior to that time there was no threat to arabs of loosing their land.

    now here are some real FACTS!

    around 1910 there were 20.000 jews in the area and over 500.000 arabs.

    in 1946 the numbers were as follows:

    so exactly what right do the jews have to annex lets say the part of the country that was inhabited by over 90% arabs???

  • Jayson
    Jayson
    I am not some extremist as the poster Jayson likes to insinuate foolishly. However I find it extremely odd that no WMD have been found, when that was the primary justification for the war, and the "coalition of the willing" has free reign to travel and inspect anywhere they like in the country of Iraq. Despite possessing the most advanced intelligence in the world, the CIA (with aid from Britain's MI5 and Israel's Mossad, both assisting US intelligence, and many other nations in the coalition), they have not found any WMD. Is it not also peculiar that if Hussein did possess WMD, NONE were used against American forces (whom he and others vehemently HATE) in order to defend his stranglehold on power? He did not hesitate using chemical weapons on his own people, but did not use any on US forces (more importantly if you discuss the Islam perspective, infidel invaders of holy land) and allowed the country (Baath party rulership) to be conquered? Any logical person would question that.

    Reborn if you are going to treat me like I am brainwashed and you are a scholar then you should have more than your opinions and a political hack to back you up. There were 5 choices open to the US about Iraq.

    1. Rebuild containment to last long term

    2. Rely on deterrence (meaning our oun nukes pointed at Iraq to stop future aggression.)

    3. Covert operations (coup d' e'tat)

    4. Create another Afghan situation by arming Kurds and Southern Shieks.

    5. Full scale invasion which will remove the Iraqi regime, scour the country for WMD, and rebuild a stable, prosperous Iraq.

    "The Threatening Storm." Kenneth Pollak. P.xxix-xxx

    Invasion was chosen and it was the right choice. This pretense that WMD was the single and sole reason for the course taken is false. It has been proven so by many people here. If you refuse to look at the sources that I offer you even though you say "look at both sides" then it's not that you are extremist its that you are exactly what you accuse me of. You want me to do all your work.

    Simon's pretense that WMD must be found right now is wrong and ridiculous. His accusations of horror and US blunder used to be the lack of the Museum policing and the massive looting that he complained about. Now that the massive looting has turned out to be a few dozen peices and not 170,000 he is off to the lack of location of WMD. He also says that Iraq is justified in attacking US/UK planes in the no fly zones that have been in place for years. He says they are defending themselves from our bombing runs, that the planes fire when fired upon is a fact that eludes him. He ignores all the things that have gone on in Iraq as a direct result of Saddam's leadership. That is one of the things that kick me off the most.

    It seems that all the people who agree with Simon on this refuse to look at any of the things that shed light on why so many Americans have the attitude that they do. It is very frusterating.

    Valis as always you are right.

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002
    Reborn if you are going to treat me like I am brainwashed and you are a scholar then you should have more than your opinions and a political hack to back you up. There were 5 choices open to the US about Iraq.

    I have provided legitimate analogies relevant to the discussion. I have provided history of the current President of the United States and documentation. Everyone else that has posted on this thread after my comments has acknowledged that, except for you. I am a moderate and make concessions with other people I disagree with and even in some instances agree. Instead you label me as antifreedom, unpatriotic, Simon's lap dog, and any other category you wish to conveniently label for me.

    I was not stating opinion when referencing the analogies of freedom of expression. Those events happened. When making inferences regarding Bush's history and motive, I was not offering opinion, I was offering fact that those circumstances exist.

    I was stating fact that WMD to date have not been found. Not that they dont exist, only that they have not been found, and that was the primary justification for the conflict.

    Can you differentiate between fact and opinion?Can your feeble little one-track mind sense that? Obviously not or you would not be suggesting I am offering solely opinion and political hackjobs. Instead of using your alleged knowledge of the subject you choose to ignore everything I listed as fact.

    You keep referencing ONE book to answer all of your questions. A word of advice, read more than one book to get a well-rounded knowledge of the subject. I am not discrediting the book, in fact it is probably a good read, however you need to educate yourself further on this subject to understand all perspectives.

    This conversation with you as ended. Although I am sure you will respond to this post because you want to get the last word and feel as though you have accomplished something, I am done with you, you ignore relevant comments and facts pointed out and instead prefer to only address whatever points you wish to make. You are a waste of time.

  • IronGland
  • Jayson
    Jayson

    Your are right Reborn because of what you said I will respond to you. But not for the last word. In your last post you say once again that I call you

    Simon's lap dog

    Now I still have not seen where I said this. I guess you missed it the last time you said that I gave you that lable. When you did I said this about it.

    14-May-03 11:42 And I did not see where I called you a lap dog. If I did then I am sorry

    And again Reborn I have not seen where I said that. But if I did than I apologize. I meant the apology then and I mean it now.

    Reborn if I were to comment on the need for education regarding another claiming that I am superior, when they offer something of merit don't treat them like crap. Unless you are looking for a fight. Which I think you were so I gave it to you. I could give you many many quotes editorials and books as reference to the Iraqi situation Reborn. I clip them and have been since before 9/11. Even if I give you more sources and more quotes about all of this Reborn really do you care? Would you have if I had made the choice to not be such a horses ass? You, Simon (him more than any other) and the others who take your stance really keep giving political carping and nothing else. Maybe I am the only one who sees it that way and if so than I stand alone. But I do not see merit in this thread I see carping.

    Can you differentiate between fact and opinion?Can your feeble little one-track mind sense that?

    Is this the high road for you Reborn. You act like the insults only fly one way. And about "the book" Reborn I said there are many other books but that one is like CoC. It is very well done. But again as I keep saying you dismiss it.

    It is like dismissing CoC when wanting to understand the JW's, yes there are other books and other ways. But, that book is something that everyone should read. Reborn I don't know how to explain that more clearly.

  • searchfothetruth
    searchfothetruth

    Jayson/ThiChi,

    Please READ the following article by Mark Morford, a San Fransisco Gate Columnist, and give us your illuminated opinions. Don't just ignore it and change the subject...as usual.

    No WMDs after all,

    no excuse for War,

    too late for anyone

    to care anymore.

    Ha-Ha, suckers.

    Ha-ha-ha oh man did we ever get smacked on that one. Conned big time. Punk'd like dogs. Just gotta shake your head, laugh it off. They reamed us good, baby! Damn.

    Turns out it really was a big joke after all. The war, that is. All a big fat nasty murderous oil-licking lie, a sneaky little power-mad game with you as the sucker and the world as the pawn and BushCo as the slithery war thug, the Dungeon master, the prison Daddy. You really have to laugh. Because it's just so wonderfully ridiculous. In a rather disgusting, soul-draining sort of way.

    See, there are NO weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. No WMD's at all. Isn't that great? What's more: There never were. Ha-ha. Gotcha!

    No warehouses teeming with nuclear warheads, no underground bunkers packed with vats of boiling biotoxins, no drums of crazy-ass chemical agents that will melt your skin and turn us all into drooling flesh-eating zombies--unless, of course, you count the sneering vat of conservative biotoxin that is, say, Fox News, in which case, hell yeah baby, we gotcher WMD's right here betcha.

    Go figure. Those lowly U.N. inspectors were right after all. Who knew? It was all a ruse. We've been sucker-punched and ideologically molested and patriotically sodomised and hey, what the hell, who cares anyway, we 'liberated' an oppressed people most Americans secretly loathe and fear and don't understand in the slightest, even though that was never the point, or the justification, or the goal. Go team.

    But wait, is liberation of a brutalised and tormented people now the reason? The justification for our thuggery? That is so cool! So that means we're going to blow the living crap out of Sri Lanka and the Sudan and Tibet and North Korea and about 47 others, right? Maybe Saudi Arabia too, second only to the Taliban itself in it's abuse of women? Cool! As if.

    Ah, but screw the liberal whiny peacenik U.N. inspectors, right? Let's ask the U.S. search teams themselves, ShrubCo's own squadrons of biologists, chemists, arms-treaty enforcers, nuclear operators, computer and document experts and Special forces troops who've been in Iraq for weeks now, searching frantically.

    Surely the've found something, right? Surely we can now prove that Saddam was fully intending to fillet our babies and annihilate Florida and poke the eyes out of really cute kittens on national TV for sadistic pleasure, right? Gimme a hell yeah!

    Whoops. Bad news. As the Washington Post reports, the 75th Exploitation Task Force, the very serious-minded group heading up all U.S. inspections in Iraq, the group absolutely certain it would immediately find steaming neon-lit stockpiles of WMD's piled right next to Saddam's personal stash of gay porn and Britney Spears posters and opium pipes, is coming home with it's tail between it's legs. FOUND NOTHING. Nada.

    Psychopatriots are a little non-plussed. Bush is merely "embarrassed." Peace advocates are sighing and drinking heavily. We have done this ghastly horrible inane hate-filled entirely unprovoked thing in the name of power and petroleum and military contracts and strategic empire building, our nation is numb and more bitterly divisive than ever and our leaders are not the slightest bit ashamed.

  • Jayson
    Jayson

    searchfortruth,


    I'll read the article if you provide a link or post it here. All I found on Mark were at lies.com. And the things he says there are not worth my time. They go alot like your comments, "Turns out it really was a big joke after all. The war, that is. All a big fat nasty murderous oil-licking lie, a sneaky little power-mad game with you as the sucker and the world as the pawn and BushCo as the slithery war thug, the Dungeon master, the prison Daddy. You really have to laugh. Because it's just so wonderfully ridiculous. In a rather disgusting, soul-draining sort of way."


    And that is just not worth a comment.


    You also say, "See, there are NO weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. No WMD's at all. Isn't that great? What's more: There never were."

    That is another one of your guy's "facts" huh? Not your opinion either right?

    You say, "Go figure. Those lowly U.N. inspectors were right after all. Who knew?"


    I guess I did miss where the UN gave Iraq the declaration that it was clear of WMD.


    You say, "It was all a ruse. We've been sucker-punched and ideologically molested and patriotically sodomised and hey, what the hell, who cares anyway, we 'liberated' an oppressed people most Americans secretly loathe and fear and don't understand in the slightest, even though that was never the point, or the justification, or the goal."


    Americans loath and FEAR and just don't UNDERSTAND but you do right?


    Your term "Psychopatriots" since this thread is directed at myself and another that lable was never meant as a backdoor insult now would it? Oh no I'm sure not you guys never give insults. You just cry when they are given back to you.

  • searchfothetruth
    searchfothetruth

    Of course Jayson,

    If you notice, I didn't say anything, that was part of an article.

    Just to let you see that it's not just us British, Bush haters who feel that the world has been duped by a false claim of WMD just as an excuse to attack another country with large reserves of oil.

  • searchfothetruth
    searchfothetruth

    Another American Journalist sees the truth. John David Rose, Carolina Morning News.

    ROSE: THE WHITEHOUSE LIED

    www.lowcountrynow.com/stories/050203/LOCrose.shtml

    "That poor dupe Colin Powell stood before the United Nations narrating a slide show of phoney intelligence trying to convince the world that Hussein was a threat."

  • Jayson
    Jayson

    searchfortruth let me get this strait what you posted WAS the article? Your right I missed the point of that. God search your adding to this thread really does help Simon's case. And you just blow my point that you guys are not offering anything of merit out of the water. No wonder you claim that ALL of Moore's sources for his book and movie "check out." And that also reminds me of Simon saying "that despite people saying he is a communinst he is really a member of the conservative party." Ya and Mike Moore is a member of the NRA so he supports individual gun right.


    I give information sources like these when the political threads come up

    The Threatening Storm






    World on Fire


    IBD articles on the Swedish think tank who broke down the money trail to Iraq

    Idelologies "politics in action"



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