Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

by truth_b_known 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • truth_b_known
    truth_b_known

    Being born-in and raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses I remember a common theme or phrases used by the Watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -

    • Jehovah created humans
    • Jehovah created humans as free moral agents
    • Jehovah created humans with "free will"
    • Free will is how sin came into the world
    • As free moral agents, God judges us by our choices and that will determine how God decides our eternal future

    I have recently begun to study the topic of free will vs determinism. The evidence definitely leans more towards determinism and that free will is illusionary.

    I was seeking other users input on the topic. Has anyone else studied this? What have your findings produced?

    "A man can do what he wants, but not want what he wants." - Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher

  • Foolednomore
    Foolednomore

    Free Will in Jw land ? Bullshit! There is no Free Will!

  • waton
    waton

    free will? yes, but only within the limits set by the conditions and natural laws.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Did I have a choice to respond to this thread? If everything is determined and there is no free choice, should we really be condemning anyone for their actions, good, bad or evil?

  • pokertopia
    pokertopia

    This is because those who say they have free will recognize that we can think and act on our own. Meanwhile, those who argue that there is no free will, although we think and act, think that it has limitations and is caused by some cause. In my view, if the free will of God and the free will of man are viewed from the same perspective, the free will of man's free will is not exercised, because it is constrained solely by God's will. However, in experience, we feel that there is freedom of choice within God's will, so in the end, human free will is subordinate to God's free will. This is because God is infinite and eternal, but humans cannot exist without God and cannot be grasped.

  • Anna Marina
    Anna Marina

    You have a choice on what you value. If you value stuff that leads to your staying alive, you live longer. It is up to you what you do. You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

    (Deuteronomy 30:19-20) . . .I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days, that you may dwell upon the ground that Jehovah swore to your forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to give to them.. . .

    (Luke 9:33-35) . . .And as these were being separated from him, Peter said to Jesus: “Instructor, it is fine for us to be here, so let us erect three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah,” he not realizing what he was saying. But as he was saying these things a cloud formed and began to overshadow them. As they entered into the cloud, they became fearful. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him.”



  • pokertopia
    pokertopia

    Please consider that I am not good at English because I am Korean.

    The question of whether humans have free will is an old philosophical question. Descartes said he had free will and Spinoza said he had no free will. The answer to this problem goes up to God, where human existence is due to external causes, but God's existence is due to internal causes. So we call it self-cause. The causes of human choice are linked. For example, when there are two roads, one road is flat, but you have to go around, and the other road is rugged but fast, the reason why one choose a rugged road was that they like to go fast. However, if a fierce beast is seen from afar, it is the cause of it and chooses a long but flat road. As such, since our choice is determined by the cause, the cause must be free to have a true free will. God exists as self-cause and has a complete free will because it is also free- cause, but humans have external causes, not self-cause, so even if there is a free will, it is a free will subordinate to God.

    How can you not poo when you eat?

  • Anna Marina
    Anna Marina

    What made you choose an English site?

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I think it does and I think that the concept of free will, and much else besides, makes better sense in a world constituted by a mental rather than material basis. See Materialism is Baloney by Bernardo Kastrup.

  • truth_b_known
    truth_b_known

    I came to this website because -

    1. Sometime in the late 1970's my parents conceived me
    2. My parents are U.S. citizens and I was birth in the U.S., a country composed of mostly Christians
    3. My parents were/are devout Jehovah's Witnesses
    4. My mother's parents were also devout JWs
    5. The Watchtower demands JW parents indoctrinate their children in their belief system
    6. Like all children, I believed everything my parents taught me is true
    7. I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses
    8. In my late 20's I applied for a job
    9. That employer hired me
    10. I had to work nights, weekends, and holidays causing me to miss meetings
    11. My enthusiasm for the JW religion waned
    12. I inherited my father's aptitude for critical thinking
    13. My father taught me astronomy
    14. I took astronomy in college
    15. My astronomy instructor made my learn Kepler's Law
    16. Graham Hancock wrote a book about Mars
    17. I read that book
    18. Kepler's Law and the book about Mars changed my belief on Noah's Flood
    19. I attended the Memorial at my father's request in 2010 because he said it would be of significance
    20. I attended that Memorial and it was exactly like every Memorial I attended for 30+ years

    That's a shortlist of contributing factors of why I first came to this website. In that list there are 8 people outside of me that have a direct link of why I made it here. There are many, many more.

    • The actions of other people.
    • My inherited beliefs.
    • My inherited DNA.

    This is a short list of external factors I had no control over that brought me to this website.

    One person said we do things for 1 of 2 reasons -

    1. We want to
    2. We were coerced to

    The question is, how do we choose what we want? We don't. Where do our thoughts come from? Who is the thinker thinking the thoughts?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpU_e3jh_FY

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