Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

by truth_b_known 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  truth_b_known

  CyberJesus is hitting on an important point.

  Free Will is an illusion. We certainly "feel" like are making choices. What is actually going on is the brain is running a calculation program.

  That calculation program consists of multiple points of input -

  • Belief structures
  • Current information
  • Past experiences
  • Desires
  • Temperament

  Input is also affect by the law of cause and effect as well as the other natural laws of the universe.

  They illusion of free will comes from our consciousness being aware that the calculation is being made combine with our inability to predict the end result of what will happen.

  Our brains are constantly running "software" that optimize our wellbeing. Cause harm to others and others' software calculations will result in treating you accordingly. Cause harm you are the problem. Others' actions, such as confining you to a place where you cannot harm them, are the result. This process is where the idea of morality comes from.
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  Anna Marina

  The Greek word for disciple is 'mathete' - it is where we get the word 'maths' from.

  In George Orwell's 1984 Big Brother said whether or not 2+2 equalled 4.

  Your choice is whether you do your own maths and bother to get it right or not. Or will you let others control your mind and do your thinking for you and convince you or intimidate you into believing their lies?

  By the way our brains actually write the software.

  Also the calculation of 2 + 2 is not difficult. Toddlers have been know to successfully carry out this calculation.
• 

  psyco

  It depends...

  We have different schools and paradigms both in Psychology and Philosophy.

  One of this is: our mind equals our brain. In this way you could think and reason in terms of our "psysical" universe and accordingly Neurology equals Psychology and Psychiatry.

  But the psysical explanation of the mind (that equals the brain) does not explain other fenomena.

  For example, a thought (something we cannot explain psysically) can move an arm (something physical). This means that we could have physical effects from not psysical causes...

  Other examples are optical illusions and the stroboscopic movement. In the first case, our mind sees what psysically is not in the stimulus that the brain receives. In the second case, the mind perceives a movement where there is not psysical movement in the stimulus that the brain receives. In these cases, you could consider the results or effects like more than the simple sum of the single parts of the perceveid psysical universe concluding that mind and brain are not exactly the same thing...

  Quite complicated... 😊
• 

  truth_b_known

  I found this which helped me out -

  Free Will, defined as the ability to have done otherwise, is not logically possible. All events must either be caused or uncaused, these are the only logical possibilities. In a universe where all events have prior causes, Free Will cannot exist as every outcome is completely determined by the given set of conditions; there is only one possible outcome. In a universe where some events do not have causes, Free Will still cannot exist as uncaused events cannot be willed into existence by a person, they would happen at random for no reason. These exhaust all possibilities, and therefore Free Will does not exist.
  This, however, does not undermine our own causal agency, we causally determine our actions, and as such still have the ability to determine our futures to our liking. I would like to add that since most of the world assumes Free Will to exist, the truth that it does not exist would have significant implications in the real world. Holding others morally or ethically accountable for their actions, good or bad, is no longer reasonable given that they could not have done otherwise. A person's choice isn't ultimately up to them, despite how much they agree with it. This would change the way we view others, hold grudges, or even hate others at all. We would still need to lock dangerous criminals away for the safety of others, but to punish them or hate them for being morally depraved would be wrong, it IS wrong.

  I think my confusion comes in with thinking free will and having a choice are one and the same as determinism and lack of having choice are once in the same. This is not so and is important. Especially when it comes to human belief systems in which people's choices are used as a license to intentionally cause harm to others or hate them.
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  psyco

  It is still difficult for me to think about mind equals brain in terms of physical causes-effects.

  In physics a cause, like electricity presence, produces an effect, like a light on or an engine movement.

  Whereas, the absence of electricity produces another effect, like a light off or an engine not moving.

  In the brain, an effect like a psysical movement of an arm is produced by an electro-chemical stimulus (the mind thought "I move my arm"). But an effect like an arm not moving is still produced by an electro-chemical stimulus (the mind thought "I do not move my arm" or "I (just) think of moving my arm without doing it").

  In the latest case, think about the thought "imagine a pink elephant" which should correspond to the electro-chemical state X (visualisation of a pink elephant) and then think about the thought "do not imagine a pink elephant" which should still correspond to the electro-chemical state X (visualisation of a pink elephant), because it is impossible not to think about a pink elephant without thinking it...
  
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  Anna Marina

  The thought is father to the action - but who thinks the thought? Think about it, if you want to. You don't have to.

  Who is making the choices here?

  https://www.bitchute.com/video/wqP2DcphO8NY/

  This lady has done some research but she leaves it up to you to decide whether you want to take her advice or not.

  https://www.bitchute.com/video/LWrY6m293B6T/
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  Fisherman

  Since the future exists according to prophecy and the future is about conduct people have not yet decided upon, it could be argued that free will doesn’t exist and a person has no choice because it is already written in the future but that is like saying that God created Satan knowing what he would do and then blame God for knowingly creating evil. So it seems but by nature of the qualities that describes YHWH, he is just and good and if a person did not truly have a choice to begin with and was predestined to do evil then the God of the Bible could not exist.
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  punkofnice

  FM - Since the future exists according to prophecy

  Prophecy from where?

  .....then the God of the Bible could not exist.

  Not being funny, but I'm not convinced a does God exist.
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  Anna Marina

  Ah the future - very useful when it comes to trading. Does the future exists because it's on the balance sheet? Will it prove to be the future you are expecting? What role does expectation play in this? Where does a person get their expectations from?

  A Beginners Guide to Futures

  There are several advantages to futures trading, including higher leverage and lower trading costs. A corporate entity can hedge prices of their raw material supply needs to lock in current prices, whereas individual investors can profit from price movements of underlying assets.

  However, futures trading does come with higher risks and isn’t well-suited for beginner investors.

  Read more:-

  What is Futures Trading? | Simply Explained | Beginner’s Guide (finbold.com)
  
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  Fisherman

  Not being funny, but I'm not convinced a does God exist.

  He can give you empirical evidence specially to you to convince you but what difference would that make except that you will know with certainty. Of there is any ultimate justice every person will know.