Another mass shooting, three or four hours ago.

by James Mixon 238 Replies latest social current

• 

  flipper

  Just a disgusting scene once again in San Bernardino this afternoon. My deepest condolences to the families who lost loved ones. This has got to stop. As President Obama alluded to in his comments it's like the U.S. is having one of these mass shootings like every week or every other week since Sandy Hook.

  Bottom line in the U.S is that we have too many damned right wing Republican politicians who are backed by the NRA who have huge amounts of lobbyists who financially back these politicians to get into office. You think these folks are going to vote for gun control ? Hell no.

  Look - I'm not saying gun control will work, I believe in the constitutional right to bear arms. However - there should be strong gun REGULATION laws that make it mandatory to do background checks on people's criminal, psychological, and medical histories before selling them firearms. Otherwise we will continue to see these scenes repeated over and over again and it will continue to be like we are living in the freaking wild west of the mid 1800's all the time with vigilante justice going on and mentally unstable people able to kill us at the local store, mini mart, in our offices at work, colleges, churches constantly. That is already happening and will continue to happen.

  Our politicians need to grow a conscience in this country and vote for not gun control, but gun regulation. I'm so pissed off about this I just wrote a song a month ago called " Gun Regulation ". In the song I relate an experience I knew about 2 years ago - A young 30 year old man I knew came home from serving in Iraq with his life intact, healthy - he went to work in Sacramento, California as a bouncer in a bar and then when trying to break up a fight between two jealous patrons over a lady, one of the men shot this young Iraqi war veteran in the back killing him. So he survived Iraq yet comes home to good old America - and gets shot and killed. The irony is so sad. Another young 18 year old lady I know who worked at a Deli sandwich shop near Sacramento and after work goes to a small party in some young man's apartment and he's messing with his gun showing off - it discharges and he accidentally shoots and kills this young lady.

  Point I'm making is it's happening WAY too much in a supposedly FREE , SAFE nation. Yeah right. Hell, maybe I should join the military and go to Iraq - I may have a better shot at living. This is just my 2 cents from the observation out here in California from what I see.

  Oh yeah , and a big P.S. on this - We have the Reagan administration to thank for putting all the psychologically disturbed people back out on the streets in the 1980's when they shut down many mental health institutions whereby these nutcases would be kept on lockdown not allowed free roaming the streets to cause harm. I think our politicians COULD do something about this , but they won't because when it comes down to it- it's all about the immortal big dollars $$$$$ that the corporates save by ignoring people killing each other to appease big government and big money
• 

  EndofMysteries

  When researching groupthink/telepathy/etc stuff I came across an article that based on all mass shootings showed statistically if there is a mass shooting, especially if there had not been one for awhile, then within the next two weeks is the greatest risk for another. That they become like an infection. It's interesting how this one does fit the profile of that two week mark from the planned parent hood one.

  http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/27/health/u-s-most-mass-shootings/
  
• 

  freemindfade

  If the Islam / Radicalization is actually significant then questions that should be asked:
  What were their non-radical religious associates doing?
  Did they know? If not, why not? If so, what did or didn't they do and why?
  Who knew this guy was a risk and why were they silent?

  
  
  
• 

  LisaRose

  greater contradiction to me are those who advocate the right to abort 5 month old babies and harvest their body parts as being okay, but want to confiscate firearms from legal gun owners. A majority of American are against late term abortions. How many babies are murdered in America by late term abortions? It is a debate to have in another forum I suppose. Killing is killing whether a gun is used or done by a doctor.

  Who says anybody wants to confiscate guns from legal owners? I haven't heard anyone proposing that, at least not anyone in any position to do so, and what has that got to do with abortion anyway? It's two completely different things, talking about selling body parts is just a smoke screen to prop up your argument that we don't need better gun laws because guns aren't much of a problem. Stick to gun issues and debate abortion on another thread.

  We licence cars and drivers, because they can be dangerous and there has to be accountability, so I don't see why we shouldn't licence and regulate guns and gun owners just as much. You should have to prove you are intelligent and capable enough to to use a firearm safely by passing a gun safety class every five years so you could get a license to buy or own a gun. All guns should should be registered by the manufacturerer and a bullet test fired so that that gun's unique markings will be on file in case it is ever used in a crime. There has to be accountability, guns should be tracked from manufacture to dealer to end user. Hold manufacturers responsible when their guns end up in the hands of criminals. When a gun is used to a crime it can be traced to the last registered legal owner. Currently gun manufacturers have no incentive to keep track of what they make.

  Close the gun show and private sale loophole, all sales should be registered through a neutral third party to verify that it is a legitimate purchase, to a person licenced to own a gun. Gun owners who sell a gun illegally will be held responsible if that gun is later found on someone it is not registered to, or used in a crime. Every gun you own should be registered to you, if one is stolen it would have to be to be reported. There should be rational limits on number of guns, no one needs an arsenal.

  People with mental health issues should never be able to obtain a gun. There are some laws in place, but they need to beefed up. I worked with a guy, his wife had mental problems and once threatened to kill herself and their two sons. She was taken to the emergency room but was able to lie her way out of it. They let her go and couldn't notify the husband due to privacy laws. She legally bought a gun the next day and shot herself and her two children. This was a tragedy that could have been prevented. Any health care provider who learns of a credible threat to use a gun should be responsible for reporting that threat, if the person has a gun license it will be immediately suspended, if not they will be restricted from getting one. If they own a gun it will be confiscated by law enforcement until it can be determined that they are not a threat. There should be hearing so that a person can prove they are competent.

  I don't understand why gun owners are so reluctant to see reasonable gun regulations. With today's technology it's doable and If you are a law abiding citizen you wouldn't lose your guns and you should be just as motivated as everyone else to keep guns from people who are criminals, mentally ill, or just plain dumb as a box of rocks. Of course I know this wouldn't stop all gun violence, but it sure would be a start.

  Gun right advocates keep pretending that this is about taking away all guns when that is not what most people are proposing. And please don't use the slippery slope argument that regulation will lead to confiscation. There is so much paranoia about the government confiscating all guns. If we can't even close the current loopholes, how the hell would we completely outlaw guns?

  I saw so many warnings when Obama was elected that he would take away everyone's guns, even though he doesn't have the power to do that on his own and he has never said he wanted to do so and in fact has not attempted that as far as I know, and we are nearing the end of his term. Instead of fighting rational gun control, you should be pushing for it so that we can focus on the other issues that are driving the violence in the U.S. and elsewhere, things like lack of mental health services, lack of drug addiction treatment and illegal immigration issues, no border security, etc.

  
  
• 

  EndofMysteries

  Here are my thoughts, especially when my above post link points out about America have the most shootings,etc.

  There are some unique variables we have that likely contribute to it.

  Aside from the fact the easy availability of guns and semis.....

  1. Mental meds - This one is huge yet so silent I bet most of you will have never heard or thought of this before. Many meds being prescribed, depression meds, etc, have DANGEROUS side effects and withdrawal effects! Not only dangerous to the user but to everyone around them. If you do some research on some of them, effexor for example, you can find tons of posts on people getting uncontrollably violent after taking it or withdrawing from it. Many of the others can do the same. Yet they are prescribed like candy. I don't know why after any crime/mass shooting/etc a record isn't kept on the meds they have been taking, when prescribed, when stopped, etc to get solid information. But for those who had no history of violence, this would be one of the first things to look at. Americans are more medicated than any other country.

  2. Vacation/Employment law - Most are afraid to take off their meager 2 week vacations each year. Whereas in Europe average 1 to 2 months vacation per year. No doubt stress and no recharge time will contribute to breaking points.
• 

  Simon

  Why is the 2nd amendment treated with such reverence? It's an outdated and misquoted piece of shit like so many of the other amendments (the majority of which people can't recite).

  Here's why it's not a right: because it's taken away all the time and genuine rights can't be.

  Think you have the "right" to bear arms? You can't.

  Well ... not on a plane ... or in a courtroom ... or in prison ...

  You see it's not a fundamental right so should be easy to make right (as in 'correct').

  Having a religion is a right (grrr) so you can still pray in prison and wherever. Guns? Not so much. It's simply retarded.

  America is going to shit. We're witnessing the crumbling of an empire and it's never pretty and tidy. The rise of extremists like Trump and co. is just a manifestation of the decay.

  It's not too late to turn things around and I hope someone can but someone needs to man up and beat the political shit out of some people to make some things happen. Obama is too passive. We need someone with the balls to do it ... like Hillary, LOL

  My prediction for the future: The extremists in the republican party chose Trump as their candidate. The subsequent infighting results in the GOP being wiped out politically and the Democrats are then able to force through tough gun control legislation. Many people complain but get used to the fact that not being shot is actually kind of nice.

  Someone finally crosses out the 2nd amendment and writes "BS" in the margin next to it.

  Lots of GOP supporters have aneurysms but they are saved due to Obamacare.

  Irony prevails.
• 

  Simon

  So reports suggest that he became angry at a Christmas (holiday?) party and then came back with his bitch and bullets.

  I think that is contrived and attempts to justify his behavior even if only slightly.

  He obviously planned all this to have all the equipment (arms, clothing, fake bombs and accomplice ready) so what does he do?

  Is he a reasonable guy that has been genuinely insulted? I doubt it. I expect he was some asshole going out looking to be offended over something - wanting someone to do him some wrong so that he had an excuse to carry out his plan.

  I doubt anyone really did anything wrong and if he was insulted - good, he deserved it because his actions show he was a complete and utter douche.
• 

  adjusted knowledge

  LisaRose

  Before I respond I would like to state I'm a gun owner and have owned in the past what is considered assault rifes (AK47, Bushmaster .ect..) I no longer own the long rifles as a matter of personal reasons. So I answer this as a person who is a gun owner in America.
  

  I don't agree with your viewpoint at times but am glad that you actually state some suggestions to gun control. Too often I see just generalize statements such as we need "gun control". Thanks for giving specifics. Most of the gun control advocates on this site are ignorant of current laws and regulations that are in place.
  

  so I don't see why we shouldn't licence and regulate guns and gun owners just as much

  I don't have a problem with it and this is already done in some jurisdiction. Only detail I would stipulate is only the government has the list. The media created a map and posted online of all registered gun owners in I believe New Jersey. It was an attempt of shame and was politically motivated. It served no other purpose. This database must be private for me to support it.

  gun safety class every five years

  Reasonable to me

  All guns should should be registered by the manufacturerer

  All guns are registered by the manufacturer to the retailer they sell it to. The retailer also keeps on file an ATF 4473 form of who they sell it to. What you probably want is a national database for each gun. This would have to be managed by the government. I own 9 guns and they are all private sells with the exception of one. In other words the only record on file for me is one gun. Private sells don't require an ATF 4473, hence to gun show loop hole

  bullet test fired so that that gun's unique markings will be on file in case it is ever used in a crime

  Law was passed in California. I personally don't care but bullet markings will change as the gun is in use so probably in long run won't be of any benefit.

  Hold manufacturers responsible when their guns end up in the hands of criminals.

  This is the most unreasonable proposal you've made and not original is it has been in the Senate before. If such legislation was allowed the gun industry would become bankrupt. This proposal is only made for that purpose alone. It is absolutely impossible for any manufacture in any industry to control who has their product and how that individual uses that product. Gun manufactures like most manufactures sell to retailers or wholesalers who then in turn sell to the public.However, I do believe a gun manufacturer should be held legally responsible for a gun that discharges incorrectly and causes injury. Which that law does exist.
  

  Close the gun show and private sale loophole

  I'm ok with this

  People with mental health issues should never be able to obtain a gun.

  This is a very complicated issue but I understand what your stating. However keep in mind we have HIPAA laws in place. Additionally you are basically requiring the government to keep a database on every person in our country that has any form of mental illness. You then want the government to decide what constitutes a mental illness. Additionally in the medical field (which I'm in) mental illness is considered curable. Slippery slope argument is a valid argument though many disagree. If our government is allowed to form huge databases on mentally ill citizen the slope may slip on registering other "undesirables". On ATF 4473 11f it does stipulate purchasers that been legally declared as mentally incompetent are unable to purchase. I don't believe in the argument of confiscation as such a thing would be impossible in our country. However forming a national database on the mentally ill could lead to other justified databases (which probably already exist). Again the only way to stop mentally ill people from purchasing a gun is to have a national database for the gun retailer to check against.

  So over all I don't have a problem with what you have suggested as I've heard them before. I'm totally against suing manufacturers because someone was murdered using their gun. If the manufacturer sold the gun to the person then fine, but they don't typically sale to the general public. However it is the retailer that sells the gun and they are held accountable as you have proposed.
  

  Keep in mind that there are over 400 million guns in the hands of Americans. So it is very unlikely that your proposal would be possible. However it is a start as you stated. I just don't see 200+ million Americans complying with registering guns that the government has no clue who owns them. There are more guns in this country than people. The only solution to gun violence is the complete abolition of gun ownership such as was done in Australia. It won't happen in this country anytime soon.
  
• 

  Simon

  I agree with all your points except this one:

  If such legislation was allowed the gun industry would become bankrupt

  Legislation gives companies the impetus to react and change. Making them accountable for careless distribution of weapons makes things safer. In the same way that mandating seat-belts have made vehicles safer.

  I think also that we need to make gun owners accountable for what happens with their weapons which will make them more careful. Make people require insurance so careless and bad actors are priced out of the system.

  If your gun was not secured and used in a crime, people can sue you the careless owner, not the manufacturer. You need insurance if you are going to have a gun and not protect it..

  But what protects against the previously law-abiding (enough) people who want guns to commit mass shootings where they too die? The only thing that will help prevent those is to limit the quantity of guns and ammunition that someone can purchase and own.

  We can limit the number of headache tablets that people can buy and it reduces suicides. Why can't we limit guns and bullets too?
• 

  adjusted knowledge

  Simon,

  I think I've asked you before but don't recall you answering. You want America to repeal the 2nd Amendment? It is a very high bar and extremely unlikely. Let's say for argument it is done. My question is how exactly do you propose the government will handle rounding up over 400 million guns from a citizenry that will not be compliant?

  America is going to shit.

  You sound like a JW. Everything is getting worst, Armageddon is coming. America has always been shit so not sure what you're talking about. We just like spreading our shit around the world, eventually you will get use to the taste as you have no choice in the matter. Only difference is if Trump is President he will charge you for the shit.
  

  Hillary will probably be our next president and nothing will change. You don't actually believe the Dems and Rep are different?