consequences for going against the direction.

by jehovaxx 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jehovaxx

  Pete I can assure you that I am right. I am a PIMA elder and I went to the meeting where we had extra info from the CO. We also have a Bethel brother at our meeting who seems to know a lot more about the changes.

  He commented that these changes mean it’s now very hard to get DF’ed in the first place and very very easy to get reinstated. Even while DF’ed JWs can still talk to you.

  The consequences of this U turn are quite profound. Think about it. It is now very hard to actually get DF’ed. The elders will have to accept it if you just simply say you are sorry and won’t do it again.

  This is very confusing because what if someone celebrated Xmas and every year told the elders they are sorry and won’t do it again? Under the new direction they would not be DF’ed
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  Jeffro

  jehovaxx:

  If elders ever think someone should be DF’ed there is now an appeals process

  Has the appeal process changed? There has been an appeal process since at least 1980.

  Even while DF’ed JWs can still talk to you.

  Well, JWs can give a brief greeting if the person attends a meeting, or to invite the person to a meeting. So, only if the person shows some interests in returning. Which is still emotional manipulation if the person wants contact with their JW ‘friends’ or relatives.

  And what good is it if a circuit overseer tells elders there are some other provisions if regular members aren’t told about them?
  
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  jehovaxx

  Imagine someone being DFd for fornication, say 10 years ago, and they are now married to the person they fornicated with. Will they be reinstated right away?

  The elders will contact everyone and ask if they can visit. If they say yes then the elders will go round and ask if they want to come back. If they are not Apostate or Promoting serious sin then yes they can be reinstated and someone will be assigned to have a Bible study with them.
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  jehovaxx

  Has the appeal process changed? There has been an appeal process since at least 1980.

  Yes it used to be more difficult but now it so easy.

  There used to be just one meeting and if they were not repentant that’s it DF’ed. They could appeal but unlikely to go against the brothers decision.

  Now after the new light it’s unlikely at the first meeting it will decided to DF. In the unlikely event it is there will be a second meeting after some time to think (basically elders will beg them to be repentant)

  if the second meeting they still are not repentant then it will be announced next meeting that they will be DF’ed. but before the announcement if the person wants to appeal then all they have to do is say they want to appeal and that they are sorry and that’s it. That is all that’s needed to overturn the decision to be DF’ed.
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  Jeffro

  If they say yes then the elders will go round and ask if they want to come back

  Will they be reinstated right away? Or do they need to go through the grovelling contrition of having to attend meetings for a time while being shunned (now with brief totally not awkward greetings)?
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  Jeffro

  There used to be just one meeting and if they were not repentant that’s it DF’ed.

  Well, if they were not deemed repentant by the elders. Not the same thing.
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  slimboyfat

  The change to the appeal procedure is pretty significant. In fact maybe it’s the most significant change when you think about it. Because in the past an appeal committee was only allowed to overturn the decision if they were convinced that the original committee had been wrong about the person not being repentant at the original judicial committee. In other words it was not good enough if the person had become repentant meantime, the only function of the appeal committee was to assess whether the original judgement had been correct on the day, not to make a new judgement in light of any new expressions of repentance. In practice it has been reported that appeals very rarely overturned the original decision, and only in cases that were so clearly wrong or, more likely, damaging to the organisation in some way if processed that the circuit overseer or branch got involved to reverse the decision.

  The new procedure sends out the clear message that the GB wants elders to avoid disfellowshipping people at all costs. Because now the appeal committee is allowed to reassess the repentance of the person at the second committee and, reading between the lines, encouraged to actively look for signs of repentance in order to avoid disfellowshipping, which is as different to the old appeal procedure as you could imagine.
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  ThomasMore

  I resigned and left on my own - never went back. I was shunned as soon as I resigned. Like many others, my life is now much better so why would I EVER consider going back??!!

  Shunning has been a gift to me since I no longer have to deal with the toxicity of JWs. I have been out long enough to see WTC and JWs for what they really are. Have you?
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  peacefulpete

  jehovaxx.....It would be a positive development for the people in the church if what you describe is actually how things are done. I fear it might be a local rogue CO mouthing off. It doesn't impact me either way, but I empathize for those still in the grip of the church.
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  GrreatTeacher

  jehovaxx, you are truly a JW apologist. You make yourself sound like you're so progressive and want a changed, softer organization.

  But, above all, you want the organization.

  And, if you want the organization, then own it. Admit you need it.

  Most of us here don't want it, changed or not. Softer or not. Easier or not. JWlite or not.

  Because their base form will not change. They are a high control religion as proven by a simple snap of the fingers - You can now say hello to disfellowshipped ones - and every exJW's phone blows up.

  Elder bodies will still disfellowship people and make them stay out as long as they wish because, at a base level, they are corrupt.

  Because the appropriate thing to do is to realize that disfellowshipping itself is wrong! It's truly none of their business how people dress, or how they have sex or what their spiritual beliefs are.

  There is no way, no how that The Disfellowshiping Arrangement is okay. It is unscriptual, if that matters to you, and certainly immoral.

  So, a little window dressing on this arrangement not only doesn't matter, but is, frankly, insulting to those of us who have been a victim of it.

  All I ask is an apology. That's all. It's a small thing. After all, we teach small children to apologize when they've hurt others.

  Even the fucking Pope apologized.

  But, not the Governing Body. No, they are stiff-necked, haughty, and refuse to acknowledge the harm they've caused.

  Too bad I don't believe in it, but they can go to hell. Oh, they're getting their reward now. Imagine if they actually lost their room, board and medical care? Better keep this old ship upright! Nothing else matters as much as keeping the money coming in. Oh my, what kind of opium can we give to the masses?

  And THIS is what they've come up with?!?

  Massaging the Disfellowshipping Arrangement, and relaxing dress and grooming standards is not going to cut it.

  Nobody's coming back because of that. Most PIMOs won't stay for that, and if PIMQs have been questioning, well they are really questioning now.

  See, the organization's problem is the ORGANIZATION!

  So, great, admit that you love and need the organization.

  We don't need it, in fact we abhor it. It's created its own problems and now its existence is the biggest problem.

  Oh, and have a great Wednesday. It's hump day.