Of course it’s crazy to coerce people to get vaccines. Especially when they don’t even claim to prevent infection or spread any more. If they were wrong about whether it stopped infection in the first place, what else have they got wrong? The world's gone crazy. (Triple Pfizer vaccinated here, but still got concerns over whether it’s safe)
Why the COVID-19 vaccine mandate is wrong
by Brock Talon 37 Replies latest members politics
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Pete Zahut
When I was a kid we didn't have seatbelts or air bags in our car but somehow my family all came out of a rather serious car accident, relatively unscathed.
For at least a decade, because of the toll that auto accidents was having on the lives of its citizens and the nations economy etc. the government mandated that cars must have airbags,ABS brakes and they must have seatbelts and we must wear them. Still, there are those who complain about the cost and inconvenience of safety equipment, they refuse to wear seatbelts. They figure people got along fine without them in the past. They feel that chances are they won't have an accident and even if they do, they won't be hurt too badly and besides, nobody has the right to make them do what's good for the greater number. Until the laws came into effect you'd see them driving down the road with no shoulder strap and their kids are standing up in the front seat and on occasion you still see them.
Call me a mindless drone but the odds of having an accident are high enough that I always wear my seatbelt and costly as it is, I won't own a car that doesn't have the latest safety technology. I don't need anyone to force me to see the statistical advantage of doing so. Same with Covid, maybe I won't come into contact with Covid. Maybe if I did, I wouldn't get too sick. However being married to someone in the health industry who is seeing on a daily basis, unvaccinated patients dying and vaccinated patients being only mildly sick, I chose to improve my odds with a vaccination.
When a person has surgery in a hospital, there's a chance that it won't work or they'll pick up some sort of flesh eating virus yet, if I ever need a surgery or become seriously ill, that's the first place I'm going. I'm damn glad to know they're out there, even if they are flawed.
The trouble is, like children who expect their parents to be perfect and want what they want and want it now. Or like mothers who smoke while pregnant and ignore the risk regardless of what they've been told, there are people who can't get past their own narcissism to see the risk they are taking and statistically, how their doing so effects the society they are a pat of . The government, (damned of they do damned if they don't) for the good of the greater number, steps in
All but one of my wife's co-workers got vaccinated. One of her RN's, an otherwise rational woman, refused to get vaccinated and quit her high paying job after 15 years. In the past, she's only gotten a flu vaccine when "Jesus told her to". Jesus didn't tell her to get a Covid Vaccine so she took it as a sign that it was time for her to quit and move to Florida and become a missionary like she's always wanted to. Her going away party was last Friday. She's headed to Florida unvaccinated and through her church will be working with underprivileged women and children.
This is who these mandates are for, multiplied by the hundreds of thousands.
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DATA-DOG
Her religious beliefs that someone may not agree with as well as her desire to move to Florida doesn’t mean she deserves to receive a mandated medical treatment.
DD
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DATA-DOG
It’s also not true that only unvaccinated people are dying. Read the latest studies from Israel. Maybe at “some” hospitals this is true, although we don’t know the general health of the unvaccinated who died. What’s their medical history? How many comorbidities do they have, etc.? None of that information has been provided.
It’s a miracle that so many healthcare workers put in countless hours in the Covid “War-zone” when no vaccine was available because it didn’t exist, yet they somehow survived only to be fired later for refusing to take the jab that they never needed..
DD 🤔
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DATA-DOG
I’m assuming you’re applying this “argument” to the unvaccinated?
“The trouble is, like children who expect their parents to be perfect and want what they want and want it now. Or like mothers who smoke while pregnant and ignore the risk regardless of what they've been told, there are people who can't get past their own narcissism to see the risk they are taking and statistically, how their doing so effects the society they are a pat of . The government, (damned of they do damned if they don't) for the good of the greater number, steps in”
DD
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Brock Talon
This is who these mandates are for, multiplied by the hundreds of thousands.
Sorry Pete Zahut, but the ends don't justify the means. As my opening post on this thread has already explained, being vaccinated does not protect others, it may only (maybe, perhaps, we think, we hope) protect the vaccinated. As such, it is impossible to make a moral argument that a mandate is for the "greater good" or "for society" which is at the crux of the vaccine mandate.
All the rest of it is noise.
The government has no right to tell us how to live our lives and to dictate what is "healthy" for us, otherwise they would totally and completely ban fast food franchises, ice cream and candy shops, carnival and fair fried food vendors, extra large meat pizzas, Big Gulp sodas, heck, ALL sodas. (As well as Starbucks goopy, syrupy, whipped cream coffee drinks.) The government would ban all "risky" sports activities (hang gliding, bungee jumping) and ban professional racing. Heck, just ban all driving by anyone who is not a "professional driver" because after all, automobile accidents kill thousands every year by "amateur" drivers. The government would then ban steaks over 14 ounces, sugary cereals, chocolate milk, selling eggs in containers larger than 12 and only one carton per trip. Then they would make laws for people with white collar desk jobs to only work 6 hours per day and mandate a gym membership for the other 2 hours per day, one that is stamped and reviewed or they would lose their job. The government could then have a law that removes children from their parents if either has a high Body Mass Index (BMI) and get those poor children in a proper, healthy environment.
And on and on and on.
Sorry, no. I don't want to live in that America, do you?
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Diogenesister
Brock point 7 The entire vaccine issue has been politicized to such an extreme that it is difficult to tell what to believe. Example: while Trump was in office Biden and Harris were both on record saying they would NOT get the vaccine because, among other things "it was untested and risky" (Biden) and "I will not take anything that Trump has to offer" (Harris). Once Biden replaced Trump, it suddenly became the ONLY thing we could do about COVID-19.
Brock I disagree with Mandated vaccines. I disagree with mandated any-type-of-healthcare - which is why I believe watchtower "mandating" refusal of blood transfusions (DA their members who choose to have a blood transfusion) goes against their human rights.
However the fact check LINK you posted against pont no. 7 didn't corroborate those statements by Biden and Harris. It claimed the following regarding the Biden and Harris' attitude to the vaccine during Trump's tenure.
It states the following:
"In fact, the clips are selectively edited to take the statements out of context. The parts that are left out make clear that Biden and Harris were raising questions not about the vaccines themselves, but about then-President Donald Trump’s rollout of the vaccines and the risk that the effort would become rushed or politicized."
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Brock Talon
"In fact, the clips are selectively edited to take the statements out of context. The parts that are left out make clear that Biden and Harris were raising questions not about the vaccines themselves, but about then-President Donald Trump’s rollout of the vaccines and the risk that the effort would become rushed or politicized."
Diogenesister
I PERSONALLY watched these statement on the new when they were televised. I watched them on CNN no less and I completely understood the "context" of those statements clearly. At that time, the left leaning media was AGAINST Trump's efforts and were very vocal about it. (For the record, I was mostly in agreement with those doubters because of the rush to push through this type of vaccine was worrisome to me. So, I was in agreement with that part of the sentiment, but not just because Trump was for it. )
Unfortunately that same left leaning media has now scrubbed every place they could and deleted the complete videos of those statements so that we can no longer prove what they said when they said it and what the context was about. That ALONE should tell you something. Ask yourself, where are all the original, complete videos of those statements that we can all watch to make up our own minds of whether or not the statements were "out of context? Gone. All we have now is that one video of a Republican senator playing a montage of the Biden/Harris statements which can now be claimed that those words were "taken out of context." But I know what I saw with my own eyes. I don't need a "fact checker" to tell me what I witnessed myself.I find it humorous that since the fact checkers now say that Biden and Harris, et all are were so worried about the "risk that the effort would become rushed or politicized"... then why did the media politicize it so much negatively during Trump's presidency and then completely reverse that in January right after Biden was elected? Why did the vaccines suddenly become "not risky" in January when they were "risky" in early November before the election? The FDA would not even approve one of those vaccines until August of that year, so what changed in January? Again, think for yourself.
Most of that "fact checking" business is done by left leaning organizations who want to excuse and/or minimize the left leaning anti-Trump positions. These so-called "fact checkers" now excuse the Bidens conduct over the Ukraine and China, so that should tell you all you need to know.
The thing is, there are still remnants of this anti-vaccine position by the left if you really care to pay attention. Just look at the situation with MSNBC's Joy Reid and her public spat with rapper Nicki Minaj. When Minaj said she believed the black community should make up their own minds about the vaccine, Joy jumped on her for "hurting the black community." Then Nicki posted Reid's OWN COMMENTS about the vaccines during the Trump incident on social media stating that Reid was a hypocrite because SHE was the one who had the anti-vaccine stance just a few months ago. Reid had to eat her own words, publicly.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/msnbc-joy-reid-nicki-minaj-vaccine-hesitancy
This was the same for Biden, Harris, Pelosi, most of the Hollywood elite, etc.
Be real Diogenesister and admit it, ANYTHING Trump was for, the left was against.
Period.