@Sea Breeze - how do you know Jesus said any of that? He didn't write anything down that has survived. And the writings that have survived (the gospels - there are no extrabiblical sources for anything Jesus supposedly said) are not eyewitness accounts. So then, what makes you so sure exactly what Jesus said? Is "Jesus said so" really good evidence for anything?
The question`s GOD beleiver / Creationists ignore or don`t / won`t / can`t answer ?
by smiddy3 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Sea Breeze
- “For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty” (2 Peter 1:16).
- “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life.” (1 John 1:1)
- “That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us, and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ” (1 John 1:3).
- “And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe” (John 19:35).
- “This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.” (John 21:24)
- “Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judea” (Luke 3:1).
- “I am not mad, most noble Festus, but speak forth the words of truth and soberness. For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely, for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him, for this thing was not done in a corner” (Acts 26:25-26).
- “Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved by God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by Him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know” (Acts 2:22).
- This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we are all witnesses.” (Acts 2:32)
- “For we are not as many, which corrupt the Word of God; but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ” (2 Corinthians 2:17).
- “After that he {Jesus} was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve. After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present…” (1 Corinthians 15:5-6)
-
waton
It is an extraordinary claim, that the acclaimed most important messages in the universe***, lay dormant for 30 years in the now proven subjective memory capacity of humans.
*** the issue of lese majesty, the wt "universal sovereignty" contest
-
waton
Think of the billions and billions of suffering creatures because our [fallen and cursed] world is based on predation.
Sea Breeze, evidence cast in stone aka fossils prove predation pre dated the "fall" by millions of years.
vegetarian lions appeared only with the planting of Eden, much later.
Predation actually started only after the Deluge, not the "Fall", right?
-
Sea Breeze
waton,
Can you name a rock dating method that was correct when applied to a rock with a known age ?
-
smiddy3
Sea Breeze ,
This is one person who claims many others are eye witness accounts of what Jesus said and done .
It is not many others who claim they are eye witnesses of what Jesus said and done .
Big difference.
-
Sea Breeze
This is one person who claims many others are eye witness accounts of what Jesus said and done .It is not many others who claim they are eye witnesses of what Jesus said and done .
Big difference.Correction: The references are from several sources. Furthermore, they explain the historical fact how tens of thousands of orthodox Jews in Jerusalem the seat of Jewish faith, left that system and put faith and trust in Jesus, a condemned criminal. They put their trust in the absolutely lowest of those cursed. "cursed is every man who hangeth upon a tree".
Why trust a "cursed man" unless he was known to never lie and walked out of a tomb. Nothing makes any sense unless Jesus really was raised from the dead.
“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
-
truth_b_known
Smiddy3 brings up a valid point.
Christian creationists will attempt to use complex manmade items as proof of a creator.
Example:
The camera has a designer. The human eye is more complex than the human eye. Therefore, humans had to have a designer/creator.
This is a logical fallacy. The concept of Intelligent Design does not hold water.
Christians state that God/The Lord/YHWY has no creator. He always was and always will be. That is interesting as God would seem to be more complex than humans. If humans have a designer then surely God would have to have a designer.
Camera (less complex) has a designer so human (more complex) must have a designer = Humans (less complex) have a designer so God (more complex) must have a designer.
-
hooberus
“Complex” in the context of a camera or eye is referring to a functional system composed of component parts (like a car transmission).
Where in the design argument is it required that a designer God must himself also be to be composed of parts?
-
waton
Is there anything in the following statement that requires a designer God to have their own designer?
Huberus, at a given point we have to acknowledge, that our systematic framework of thinking abilities runs up against the unfathomable.
energy, can not be created, even in our universe, it does not even need a creator, designer. Time too is eternal, does not need a creator.
The laws that came with the package of our universe give all the needed setting for all to develop.