Experiences with kiss up kick down Jehovahs witnesses

by hoser 16 Replies latest jw friends

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  hoser

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_up_kick_down

  I’ll go first.

  In a previous congregation we had a pioneer couple that have since gone on to be Gilead graduates and are now either in circuit work or translation. They checked all the boxes off the societies list so they were exemplary. Regular pioneers, elder with an exceptional speaking ability, volunteers on quick build halls when that was a thing and interviewed on the assemblies and conventions.

  Except when it came to their interactions with the little people like brother and sister Hoser. I would have to label them as condescending, entitled users. They still owe us money. We filled in for them on their cleaning job and had an agreed upon compensation. The night they were supposed to be back they phone me at 10 pm and want me to go clean as they were still visiting friends. Being the gullible sucker I was at the time I went and did their job even though I had to be at my regular work early Monday morning.

  It was all good until I didn’t get paid. I badgered them for a couple weeks and finally got a check that they purposely mis spelled my name so that I couldn’t cash it.

  In these circumstances the small people are screwed as you “can’t take your brother to court” and none of the elders will help you as your claim is viewed as frivolous and unbelievable because this brother and sister are circuit stars and they would never do such a thing. I was told even if they didn’t pay you Jehovah is still pleased as indirectly you are supporting kingdom interests.
  
  
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  LongHairGal

  HOSER:

  Even though I may have seen types of JWs that you describe, thankfully, I never had any interaction with them.

  I was NEVER impressed or interested in anybody with titles there and would never have given any of them so much as a dime. Anybody there who thought of themselves as a clergy class deserving to be ‘paid’ and deserving of freebies was out of luck as far as I was concerned. Let them go ask the religion..You don’t get to criticize responsible working people making remarks like ‘unspiritual’ and then imagine they are going to give you charity.👎

  I’m sorry you had this bad experience.

  As far as ‘taking your so-called brother to court’, I certainly would have which was why I stayed the hell away from these entitled deadbeats.. I didn’t even look at them.
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  FedUpJW

  The small people are screwed as you “can’t take your brother to court”. I was told even if they didn’t pay you Jehovah is still pleased as indirectly you are supporting kingdom interests.

  Some years ago I contracted with JW contractor to build my house. Contracts drawn up and signed, home loan applied for, all was good. . .until the guy started work two weeks late, took multiple days away from the job to 'go in service', forgot to order cabinets, and when the date arrived that I was to close in order to obtain a time sensitive low interest loan from the bank, the house was still not done. Of course the bank did not close on the loan, so I was out an additional $5,000.00 up front, and the higher interest over the course of the mortgage would have been even more thousands of dollars.

  I contacted my lawyer who after reviewing the contract, photos of the property, and the state of uncompleted work said, "You will own that house free and clear when we are done!" The elders got wind of it when the contractor was served papers and called me in the back room and spouted the, "Does any one of you who has a dispute with another dare to go to court before unrighteous men, and not before the holy ones? Really, it is already a defeat for you when you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather let yourselves be wronged? Why do you not rather let yourselves be defrauded?"

  Then they informed me that IF the lawsuit was not withdrawn I would be disfellowshipped. I withdrew it, and that was one of the biggest mistakes I ever did. I have regretted ever listening to those opinionated, blow-hard, ignorant POS windbags ever since!
  
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  TonusOH

  It's not just the gall of them clearly putting the organization's most minor interests (don't make them look bad at the most local level) ahead of yours (time wasted and money lost with no recompense, because 'god will fix it all in the end'). It's that they don't care if an unscrupulous person takes advantage of one of "the sheep" that they are supposed to be looking out for. Does the slimy contractor get anything done to him? What is the worst they can do, give him a "talking to"? After he got away with what amounts to a crime?

  He walks away laughing, and the elders pat each other on the back for 'maintaining the good name of Jehovah by showing how well everyone in the congregation gets along.'
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  Sea Breeze

  Then they informed me that IF the lawsuit was not withdrawn I would be disfellowshipped.

  Wow. I didn't realize that a law suit on a business fraud would be a disfellowshipping offense. But, I guess it makes sense in their upside down world where victims typically get abused twice.
  
  
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  Biahi

  That’s why I knew, deep down, never to get involved with them in business. I knew a sister, who worked full time for a brother with an insurance agency, and he paid NO insurance benefits. Why work for him, then ?
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  Smiles

  A JW cannot be excommunicated for the sole act of taking another believer to court. At the very most, such a JW might lose their status of being viewed as "exemplary" which could lead to a loss of some special privilege titles, but would not result in excommunication. Though, the negative stigma of having 'taken a fellow JW believer to court' can linger for a very long time, as in for a lifetime.

  Regardless of the outcome from any court litigation, congregation elders are not obligated to recognise or critique decisions arising out of worldly courts, particularly those concerning private civil court disputes. Governing Body member David Splane ranted about this area of JW culture in his 2021 convention talk. JW officials want to render their own verdicts, which in some cases is to "do nothing"...

  A JW could win their case against a fellow JW in worldly court, but lose the same case if it were later brought before the local JW elders. Most bodies of elders will not dabble into private business disputes beyond providing some generic biblical counsel. If elders do become more deeply involved, as the OP mentions, there are likely other factors at work, such as favourtism, selfish ambition, or simply some plain jackass elders.

  To alleviate congregational angst resulting from such drama, JW literature and even their secret book for local elder's strongly emphasize formal written agreements for business matters between believers.

  But of what real benefit is a formal written agreement between believers if JW elders will not help enforce it, and JW culture then discourages pursuing litigation as a means to remedy breach of contractual agreements...

  In the end, the pressure from JW elders is to "let yourself be wronged" in order to avoid "bringing reproach upon the congregation's reputation" by believers disputing mere material things in a worldly public court of law.

  Odd how the WT legal department can threaten litigation and drag the name of Jehovah into courts whenever it might benefit WT, as with that Lego-gate scandal, but the average JW is cautioned against seeking justice from wordly courts in situations that might besmirch the good reputation of "Jehovah's name"

  JW business is tricky business.
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  under the radar

  If you have to sue a "brother" to make him honor a signed contract, it is HE who is "bringing reproach," not the victim who needs to be made whole.

  A JW may well be forced to resort to "worldly courts" for justice if the congregation won't help. That very refusal to hold members accountable also "brings reproach."
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  Simon

  A JW cannot be excommunicated for the sole act of taking another believer to court

  And they wouldn't be, it would be for bringing reproach upon Jehovah or the congregation. Whatever BS they want to invent, they don't need any legitimate reason!
  
  
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  Disillusioned JW

  The WT shouldn't even apply the scripture the way they do, since the scripture (of not taking fellow Christians to court) is talking about those who believe they will go to heaven and judge angels, yet these days hardly any elders in the congregations claim to have that hope. Hardly any congregational elders claim to be of the anointed. Furthermore, only an extremely tiny percentage JWs living since the 1950s claims to be of the anointed.