Help needed: transgender people and other unclear topics

by TeaBiscuit 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Hecce
    Hecce

    My small contribution: I have no experience whatsoever with the TG issue, since this is a brand new dilemma.

    If I have to use some guideline as reference I will think about homosexuality and the few individuals male and female that I saw coming into the WT with the conviction that they had conquered their orientation problem. There was not a single case where they were successful, in every instance they went back to their old habits or practices and some of them took another publisher with them.

    My opinion is, a person with that inclination will be asking for hell by coming into the WT.

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    You have a right to check, check and double-check everything you have been told. Most of it though is hidden in plain sight in the books you studied, either stated outright or implied. You would have have come across the scripture in the book of Deut 22:5 talking about men not dressing as women. You would have come across the scripture in Romans 9 that talks about fornicators and homosexuals not inheritng the kingdom.

    You have probably been so seduced by the love-bombing that you didn't notice their obsession with the old testament rules and regulations. But, obsessed they are, and these people mean business. If, you decide to go against any of their rules once baptised you will be dealt with strongly - which usually means a withdrawal of all that lovely christian love - so no more love for you!

    So you're absolutely right the time to question is now. And by god question everything especially the things that do not sit well with your conscience. Do not ignore your conscience it is trying to tell you something.

    BTW, you do NOT need a large mega-rich organisation to believe in god or Jesus if you feel that is what you want.

    In fact you do not need an organisation to do that at all, regardless of JWs insisting that you do.

    Jesus supposedly came to sever the slavery to the harsh controlling religious leaders of the day and make faith a personal matter then why are JWs constantly harking back to old testament rules?

    Just another thing to ask yourself and think about.

  • TeaBiscuit
    TeaBiscuit

    Oh, wow, when I wrote my last comment already three more of you replied! Than you so much!ni really appreciate it.

    Dagney. I agree with your point. That was also a thing that got me thinking. I hear stories of people giving up their passion (music, sports, art, ...) for the truth. Though this might me admirable, it somehow seems very hard. I "gave up" acting (or rather perusing an acting career, i still do theatre occasionally) when I studied for about a year since I realised that I might have to violate bible principles in order to work in this field. I don't really regret it, since I'm very happy with what I do now and I don't know if it would have worked out at all, but I just wanted to share this to show you why I've already thought of what you said... I know that this can be hard to a person. However, there are also other examples of people being JWs and "living their dream" aren't there?

    Giordani. Thanks for the link, I will read that later. The list is quite long and honestly, most of them did not surprise me, though it seemed pretty rough. However, I was not aware that artificial insemination was prohibited. Like the transgender i don't really get why they have this attitude towards it... Thanks for showing me all this. Like I said, I will look through it again later - I just had a quick glimpse.

    problemaddict2. Again for a formal thing: I did not mean apostate in a derogatory way, this just somehow poped up in my mind as the right term. So again, sorry if I hurt anyone by this, it was not my intention. Is the term ex-JW better? Or what do you generally use?

    you said you would encourage me to learn more. Well, I'm here willing to learn more.

    cofty, well, we can now start a very philosophical discussion about what counts as facts and what does not and how we want to deal with the notion of feelings and such... But actually, what I wrote (or rather how I wrote it) was just an expression. What I meant by it was, that this is my personal opinion based on my personal knowledge and general understanding of the bible, religion in general and human interaction with God.

    Anders Anderson. Thank you for the example.

    incognito. Thanks for your input. I actually already thought about the two questions the candidates have to answer right before changing clothes. They have seemed a bit dodgy to me...

    The questions you have to answer before being able to get baptised are of course not biblically relevant (I can't remember anyone on the NT getting baptised after telling someone about fundamental biblical teachings). Anyway, I get why JWs are doing this and though it has no biblical background I see the practicality of it...

    Nonetheless, it think I have to clarify something: when I mentioned before that I think baptism is something wanted by God I did not strictly refer to being baptised as a JW but to baptism in general. I hope this makes it clearer.

    Millie210. Thank you for your input. I will definitely read the letter since it seems very closely connected to my original question thanks!

  • TeaBiscuit
    TeaBiscuit

    Guys, you're so quick and full of input for me, thank you. Again I missed out two posts, so here are my answers.

    Hecce. Though I already thought about that issue I did not research that further. Do you have a source for your statement that they all left the congregation? This sounds pretty interesting.

    sparrowdown. Thank you for the encouragement! I naturally came across these scriptures, but I don't see that deut 22:5 applies here, since a trans-woman is in my opinion a woman, not a man. But if course, the organisation sees this differently...

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown
    Yes, if you decide to be baptised what you think about what the scripture means doesn't count, so get used to that feeling.
  • Hecce
    Hecce
    Hecce. Though I already thought about that issue I did not research that further. Do you have a source for your statement that they all left the congregation? This sounds pretty interesting.

    I was very clear that my comment was related to my personal experience and observations. Now I can tell you that the WT is not a very tolerant and progressive organization and the JW homosexuals (they are some) are living a double life, in constant fear of being outed and DF.

  • Gefangene
    Gefangene

    I highly recommend you reading a book called "crisis of conscience" written by ray franz. You can download it as pdf for free from the net. Just google it.

    If you still want to get baptized after input from this book feel free to. At least you will know a lot of background of the org after reading through the book.

    Pm me if you need help in finding ray franz's books online.

    Love from some middle european country ;-)

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    TeaBiscuit "Of course the organisation sees it differently"

    You have answered your own question. The organization's opinion is the only one that matters.

    JW message is quite simple you either agree with everything the GB says, give up your personal thoughts and feelings and your right to decide on your own personal matters or you don't. There is no negotiating or compromising with these people and their rules.

  • TeaBiscuit
    TeaBiscuit

    Hecce. Oh, I'm sorry, I just very quickly read your comment and missed that part. My fault.

    Gefangene. Thank you. I'll try to find it via Google. If not I'll come back to you. Love from some other (or maybe the same?) middle European country :)

    spartowdown. I think what you just said really is the core of my problem. I want to have a relationship to God, but on my terms, guided by my conscience. In the end I am the one responsible for myself, not the GB. That's why I have to deal with things the way I see them as right and wrong...

  • Hecce
    Hecce
    spartowdown. I think what you just said really is the core of my problem. I want to have a relationship to God, but on my terms, guided by my conscience. In the end I am the one responsible for myself, not the GB. That's why I have to deal with things the way I see them as right and wrong.

    With this comment you are proving that the WT is not for you.

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