Yes TB, you are the boss of you, and you have the right to make your own decisions and by getting baptized as a JW you will be giving up that right. You need to be crystal clear on that. They will try and gloss over that and tell you it's for your own benefit etc but that is a lie! Giving up your personal right to think and decide is never in your best interest.
Help needed: transgender people and other unclear topics
by TeaBiscuit 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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jwfacts
Welcome teabiscuit.
I have addressed this topic at http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/homosexuality-gay-jehovahs-witnesses.php
To get baptised you are expected to go back to your "biological" gender.
“Mutilating the sex organs, such as having the male organ surgically removed and an artificial female organ created, does not change the facts or make the person into the opposite sex. Someone desiring to be baptized who has already undergone a mutilating operation of this sort (a transsexual) would be expected to take his or her place in life in accord with what the individual biologically is, not in accord with what the person has been mutilated to appear to be. This may even require that the person leave a “mate” to whom the person is “married,” since the mutilated one is actually (biologically) of the same sex as the “mate.””Correspondence Guidelines (2011) p.98
You really need to get out of that religion as quick as possible for your own mental heath. You do not need to join a high control religion to worship Jehovah, particularly one that refers to you as depraved and mutilated.
My best friend is an exJW and transgender. If you ever are in Sydney Australia it would be nice to meet up.
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LisaRose
It was my understanding that any individual who was not living as the sex they were assigned at birth would have to change back before they could be baptized. I am assuming that to change your sex would be considered a disfellowshipping offense. I doubt many people would do that just to get baptized, but you never know.
Personally I think it should be left up to the individual, gender identity disorder is now recognized as a legitimate problem by the medical community. It is not something people choose to do on a whim, or because they are confused or have mental issues. There are various things that happen in the development of a baby that causes gender identity to form, sometimes things go wrong and the child is born with a gender identity that just doesn't match their outside genitalia.
The medical community treats this as a medical condition, and letting the person choose to live as the sex they feel they are seems to work. It's no small undertaking, but it can be done. Treating it as a moral issue, as the Watchtower does, is like blaming a diabetic for taking insulin. They are causing needless suffering to JWs who are born transgender. Imagine losing your family and friends because you have a medical condition and choose to get it resolved, it seems cruel.
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Giordano
TeaBiscuit you are a forum warrior........... in a good sense. Most new people would have folded their tent and departed.
From the responses you have made a lot of friends......... obviously we care about you. You............ the person who is thinking it through and starting to see the terrain. Not someone who must agree with us.
I am a non believer (my wife and I left 50 years ago) or put another way.......... We haven't missed a meeting in 50 years!
I enjoy the spiritual side of life mainly through nature and music. Most of all my beloved wife..........and our son & D-I-L and our grandchildren. We volunteer in our community and we try to make a difference. We have cultivated many friends............ volunteers are some of the very best people you will ever meet.
Your asking insightful questions......... unfortunately the JW's are morally and emotionally compromised. Investigate the ARC commission........ that is the Australian Royal Commission investigating pedophiles in organized religion. The JW's have a huge sexual abuse problem. I know they believe in NOT sexually abusing children..... they are against it but they also believe in the Two Witness Rule, you must have two witnesses to a crime before the Elder's can act. They also up, to recent times, want to keep their investigation in house. No one is to be notified except the Society and then they are told how to respond. A part of the two witness rule is that the accuser must face their abuser. Can you imagine a child being questioned in front of their abuser? Or the child not being protected if it was a family based sex abuser? Can you imagine humble or not so humble untrained Elder's dealing with this problem?
The ARC revealed that from 1950, when records had to be kept, up to the present day the JW's in Australia had investigated 1006 pedophile complaints with over 1700 plus victims. Many abusers refused to confess so with only the child to bear witness against them they were turned loose on the congregation........ maybe 400 plus were disfellowshiped because they confessed......... but half were allowed to return to the congregation. That information was private and the congregation not informed. Of the 1006 cases on file.................... none were reported to the authorities! None.
Jesus taught the two witness rule but he also taught that we should not hinder the children, to let them come to him. In another scripture John 11: 35 It is said that Jesus wept.......... I have to wonder if he is weeping at all of these religions that provide a safe haven for child sexual abusers.
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Anders Andersen
@TeaBiscuit,Although I don't know anyone who is transgender and I am not transgender myself this seemed extremely cruel to me.[...]
And since this particular handling of a situation seemed just plainly wrong to me I started asking myself if there might be other things that are not as they should beI think this shows you're a reasonable person, who is caring for his/her fellow human beings. Taking their feelings into account. So, I present to you some Bible verses that may help you with your decision.
These verses show you how much Jehovah cares about the feelings of human beings. You can do the math on the transgender question yourself. If you think forcing a person to live according to his/her biological gender is cruel, read on.
Please look the verses up in your own Bible. Read them.
Try to identify yourself or someone you love (especially sister or daughter if you have those) with the subjects in the verses.
Keep in mind who supposedly invented these laws quoted: Jehovah.- Raped girls are forced to marry their rapist
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB) - Prisoners of war can be forced to marry (aka raped)
“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. [...] However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.” (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB) - Humans can be traded like cattle
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) - Female slaves can be forced to marry (aka raped)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. [...] And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.[...] (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT) - Slaves may be severely beaten as long as they don't die the same day
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB) - People with mutilated or defective sex organs are not as acceptable to Jehovah as other people are
“No man who has been castrated by having his testicles crushed or who has had his male organ cut off may come into the congregation of Jehovah. (Deut 23:1) - Ugly people and people with various other defects are not as acceptable to Jehovah as other people are
18 If there is any man who has a defect, he may not approach: a man who is blind or lame or has a disfigured face* or one limb too long, 19 a man with a fractured foot or a fractured hand, 20 a hunchback or a dwarf,* or a man with an eye defect or eczema or ringworm or damaged testicles.+ (Lev 21:18-20)
Yes, there's more where this is coming from.
Remember, Jehovah does not change!
And in case you reason "this was normal in ancient times, Jehovah just regulated (bad) human customs": The Israelites had multiple laws to were intended to set them apart from the rest of the world: keep the Sabbath, don't cut your beard, blue ribbon and fringes in your clothes, don't eat blood, etc.
Why not respect basic human right and give laws that forbid rape, slavery, discrimination, and others abuse?If you're really worried about how Watchtower and God think about transgenders, maybe the verses above give you an idea about the morals of your God.
Apparently He doesn't really care about the feelings of human beings, and destroyed lives are not His concern. At least He doesn't care about women and people with 'defects' much, and men are not his concern when the are POW or slaves.
Or maybe it's just all ancient human laws, that really have no divine origin...
- Raped girls are forced to marry their rapist
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Dunedain
Teabiscuit - I bet you are enjoying this, harmless but important, discussions here on this forum. Well, we are enjoying having you here, I bet you have made some friends here too.
Well the sad thing about the JW,s at IF you get baptized you CAN NEVER come back to this forum again. If you do, and get caught, you could very well be disfellowshiped simply for coming into this forum. How crazy, and sick is that? The scary thing, is its true.
Another thing to help "put things in perspective" about this organization, is a small example of how the average JW "thinks". I was born in, and raised, and I can recall many years ago, having a discussion with an Elders son, and he was someone who was and still is, considered to be a very "spiritual" person, well in the discussion we were talking about homosexual persons, and his exact words about them were, and I quote, " they(homosexuals) will in no way be in, or make it into, the new system, THEY ARE ALL GOING TO DIE ".
That sick,and horrible comment that stuck with me from the age of 10, was the start of my "waking up" from the reality of what this religion is REALLY about.
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freddo
If you wish to be baptised as a Christian then why not self-baptise? Seriously. Privately between you and God.
Read Matt 28 v 18 - 20.
Recognise that Jesus has full authority as given him by his father. Make yourself a disciple and obey Jesus. (Not necessarily the JW's, not even necessarily Paul, just what you believe Jesus commanded.)
Take yourself off to a swimming pool, quietly say a prayer that in the name of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (leaving open whether the trinity or a duality plus the holy spirit is true or whatever) you dedicate your life to doing God's will. Then stick your head under the water. No one else need know what you are doing.
Tell no-one in the JW's and give yourself time to think.
If you change your mind and want to affiliate with another religion (even JW's but candidly I hope not) then fine - it's between you and God. If you conclude that God doesn't exist then your dedication and baptism is pointless and it doesn't matter.
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Half banana
Welcome to the forum Tea biscuit. I appreciate that you have already realized the wisdom of reflecting on the seriousness of what you are thinking of doing namely to be baptised as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It really does pay to look before you leap.
JWs call their beliefs “the truth” as shorthand within the community to remind everyone that what is believed is true. This could not be further from the truth! The JW religion works through ruthless conformity to the Watchtower doctrines which are repeated daily through their literature, meetings, JWTV and also by the expectations of the whole community. JWs constantly patrol the boundaries in their everyday conversations exploring the fine line between what is acceptable or not to the directions laid down by the governing body. To transgress, for a baptised individual, leads to a judicial committee hearing and possible punishment by shaming or shunning.
The matter of transgender and homosexuality is a good example of how insensitive the JW org is. These matters are realities of the human condition, but the Watchtower can only cope with the Biblical mentality of black and white as if God made things one way and to be different is offensive to God.
JWs rejoice in their exclusion of people with whom they disagree... balanced mature humans rejoice in the diversity in life. JWs harbour the delusion of exclusive divine protection and pure religion, the fact is their beliefs actually stifle natural goodness and suppress personal development...sadly the only tangible contribution that a JW makes is to unwittingly promote the financial interests of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and its supporting companies.
Nothing in my life has been as hurtful to me and my family as the JW organisation. Even though still suffering the consequences years after leaving, I am so much happier having escaped from its mind-bending influence. In essence I wish I never had had anything to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses. I wish there had been someone there to tell me about the other side of the coin before I took that leap.
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Vanderhoven7
Welcome TeaBiscuit,
You notice that you are free to discuss anything you want here. The mere fact that you are here on this site hiding your identity (which is important by the way) is evidence that you realize that you are not free to have and express independent thoughts in the organization. Further, once you are baptized into the organization (and not into Christ), discussing things with apostates will constitute a disfellowshipping offence. You will always be looking over your shoulder wherever you go.
Please do more research on the organization. Read the Bible for yourself without the blinders of the organization and its misinterpretations to guide you.
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Lieu
Welcome!
And to answer your question: Whatever the GB says. No scriptures needed since there aren't any to address trannys. There isn't anything to address heirmorphadites either.
They will however throw in some Mosaic Law stuff which of course isnt binding on Christians. Fundamentalist groups are similar in that respect. JWS are highly fundamental to the point they tell you what you can and can't wear at all times. Nothing is left to your conscience or discernment.
Be certain to seriously investigate them as you would any other group you may wish to join.
On a side note, I had to laugh at the whole artificial insemination / surrogacy stuff. I mean really, what's that ENTIRE Jesus thing going on with Mary about ....??!!!??? An engaged artificially inseminated surrogate mom. Lol! Then there's that whole bonk your dead brothers wife because he died without any heirs thing.
