Logical Fallacy… can I get some help here?

by DATA-DOG 154 Replies latest social current

• 

  Anony Mous

  “The fact is that unvaccinated people have more of chance of suffering worse symptoms from this virus with its new variants.”

  You can prove that is false, because there would be a LOT more people in the hospital as the new variants are much faster and more optimized for spreading and infecting than previous variants.

  The fact is that there are a LOT less people in the hospital. Currently 49.4 percent of the country's population is vaccinated. We should be seeing at least HALF the cases we saw last year if COVID was still a threat. We see less than 10 deaths in moving averages for states that have opened up.
• 

  Rocketman123

  One of the issues surrounding this subject is that certain folks refuse to read information.

  from your own words no less
  

  Only thing you do DD is pull biased selective information from somewhere that supports your biased position, kind of like JWS trying to support their doctrines.

  Are you still a practicing JWS ?
  

  Just to use an example here in Canada,.....

  Provinces such as Alberta and Ontario who had a strong repulsion of social restrictions eventually grew to a state that all their hospitals became overwhelmed by people who had high level Covid symptoms, which inevitable made these hospitals stop other planned surgeries due to a lack of beds etc.
  

  Here in BC social restrictions and mask wearing regulations have been lifted but Covid cases have dropped dramatically, why ? because of the population vaccination program.

  The science is there as evidence, if you want to deny that that's your problem.
  
• 

  Rocketman123

  So you would agree then AM that vaccinations have worked to their original intent ?
  
• 

  carla

  Why do people have to call names and say that doctors, virologists, etc.. who have as much education (and sometimes more) real world experience in ER's and hospitals are pseudo scientists or lesser than the doctors who are pushing the vaccine without debate?

  This entire issue has become a 'religion' of sorts where one cannot even look at alternative views to make an educated decision for themselves without being called names or shunned. It reminds me so much of when my jw first joined the cult. He was warned off of looking at any alternative views at all, in fact he was threatened if he did. Much like those who are trying to have the discussion about the vaccines, natural immunity vs man made and so forth, they are dismissed as nutters, called various names and their mental status is questioned.

  Treating the unvaccinated like lepers will not help society. Nor will it stop covid. Many people cannot get the vaccine or do not want it for various reasons. Society cannot run around saying 'my body, my choice' in regard to abortion or in the case of jw's, refusal of blood and then tell others they do not also have the right to say 'my body, my choice'.

  If you have had the vaccine you should trust it enough not to care if your neighbor or the guy next to you in line has had it.

  Data Dog, I have heard & read the same thing.
• 

  just fine

  The part I find particularly ironic, is that the Libs are all about pro-choice when it comes to abortion, my body my choice. But not so much when it comes to vaccines. For the vaccines they resort to this kind of drivel. And yes I am vaccinated - my choice.
• 

  Rocketman123

  Is it really a Liberal ideology that is only pro vaccination ?

  There is high number of right wing conservatives who are also pro vaccination as they see it as moral responsible imperative with the concern of others..

  To make a better distinction of who is pro vac to those who aren't, take a survey of people who are 70 and up with those who are under 30 and that's where you see a stark contrast of results.
  
• 

  Anony Mous

  @Rocketman: There is no correlation between vaccine rates and death rates.

  If COVID was such a threat if you're not vaccinated, with only 50% of the population vaccinated, you should still see similar levels and outbreaks amongst the unvaccinated. You don't.

  You don't see that due to natural immunity in the majority of the population. Even the CDC says that natural immunity develops automatically (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/immunity-types.htm)

  There have been recent studies indicating at least 50-75% (depending on the model) of people currently not vaccinated have been exposed and may have developed natural immunity.

  The fact that Canada has problems dealing with people getting sick has more to say about their hospitals than about the disease. In the US, except for NYC state-run hospital (which were overran because Cuomo refused to pay for care at empty privately owned public hospitals), no hospitals were overrun. In Canada, hospitals are overrun on a regular day as people often wait up to a year to get critical care (https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2019)
• 

  C0ntr013r

  Humans generally don't consider active and passive moral actions in the same way. Killing someone and standing by while someone dies is for example viewed differently, even if the outcome is the same.
  
  I think the main difference between getting vaccinated, and drunk driving lies in this difference. Not getting vaccinated is a passive action because you are not actually doing anything. Driving under the influence is an active action.
  
  There are many psychological studies that have looked into this. The trolley problem is one of the most famous if you are interested.
• 

  DATA-DOG

  “Only thing you do DD is pull biased selective information from somewhere that supports your biased position, kind of like JWS trying to support their doctrines”

  Wrong. Also a very weak argument. I’ve encouraged everyone, not just you, to look at multiple sources of information, especially experts from around the world who have been censored, ect. I’m not sure how that equates to bias in your mind. Also, your argument does nothing to address the issue of naturally acquired immunity. Have you done any research on this subject? It’s fascinating.

  You’re trying to attribute dropping case numbers with vaccination programs alone which is simply not true, but it is the easiest answer to give.

  DD
• 

  Rocketman123

  Even the CDC says that natural immunity develops automatically

  So who cares ?

  Is it appropriate to let thousands die while natural immunity slowly develops ?

  I know lets forget about vaccinations all together, let the hospitals fill up with people with severe symptoms shutting down hospitals regular duties and operations.

  Take a chance, play Russian roulette with your own and other people's lives.

  The anti vaxers will win the argument.

  I think some people here are much more smarter and informed than most established government health officials.

  Correctly they should be the ones to replace them .