HEBREWS 11:16

witnesspaul

Hi

Having been a Jw for 15yrs I have just recently began to question some of their beliefs. One of the lines of reasoning I have always used in connection with the earthly hope was that the ancient Hebrew Prophets had no concept of a heavenly hope and so they had salvation with-out being born again. That was until I read this:

Hebrew 11:16

16 But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them . [NWT]

But in fact they were longing for a better homeland, their heavenly homeland. That is why God is not ashamed to be called their God, since he has founded the city for them. [NJB}

But now they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed of them, to be called their God; for he hath prepared for them a city. [ASV}

But now they desire a better, that is to say, a heavenly country. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. [douay]

But, now, after a better one, are they reaching, that is, a heavenly; wherefore God is not ashamed of them, to be invoked as, their God, for he hath prepared for them, a city. [Rotherham ]

This had totally blown my mind it clearly states that they will have an heavenly hope, just wondered if anyone else had any thought on this, just goes to show how wrong we can be, and how when you read the scriptures independently from the ORG you see things you never knew were there.

Agape

Witnesspaul

Brummie

Hello witnesspaul

I mentioned Hebrews 11:16 in a little study I wrote here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/48545/1.ashx

Have you checked Hebrews 11:16 next to the KIT? see how they had to change the words to fit.

Dont know if this would interest you, but 1st Peter 1:10-11 also says the ancient worthies had the "Spirit of Christ" within them! The WT applies that to the 144000 as it is a requirement to enter into heaven see Romans 8:9, (again the WTower changed the words in 1st Pete, compare it with other bibles) :

They had to change the words as it doesnt fit their 144000 doctrine or their belief that Jesus became "the Christ" at his baptism. If the oldies had the spirit of Christ then he must have been the Christ way back then huh.

10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them

Anyway dont want to confuse you, your head must be spinning already with all that you are finding out.

Brummie

by the way, WELCOME aboard witnesspaul, only just realised this was your first post.

Good to meet you

Brummie

Satanus

Welcome witnesspaul

Exactly. That was one of the scriptures i hit the elders w, when i was on my way out.

SS

DJ

Hi Paul,

It's nice to meet you. Yes, I have read about the heavenly home in Hebrews and elsewhere. Keep up your personal bible reading. You will learn many things that we were not taught. It is also helpful to watch out for the things>>>[ ]<<< You know, those brackets with words in them that are supposed to "complete the sense". They actually change the meaning. You are embarking upon quite an eye-opener! I will pray for you, Paul, that you will have peace and your eyes will continue to be opened. Welcome to the forum! dj

greven

Chech out this one as well:

Matthew 8
11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

It is most clear i would say!

Greven

AGuest

Dearest WitnessPaul... peace to you!

Well, if Hebrews 11:16 and Matthew 8:11 don't do it for you, perhaps Hebrews 11:8-10, 13, 38 will drive it home for you.

But know this: their "hope" was earthly, per se, for the heavenly and earthly hopes... are ONE. For the City of New Jerusalem COMES DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN... and is established... upon the earth. But is it a city NOT made by human hands, but one having real "foundations"... Christ and the apostles... the builder and make of which is God.

Revelation 20:9

Revelation 21:2, 24

Matthew 6:10

There is only ONE hope, dear WP... one body, one faith, one baptism, one Lord, and one God. (Ephesians 4:4)

The Society, however, has "divided" the Christ, the HEAD of the Body... by means of dividing the Body... into separate earthly and heavenly destinations. This is a lie. God's purpose is for the "meek" - those SUBDUED by Christ, by means of holy spirit, called to be "Israel" by means of an anointing as SONS of God... to inherit the EARTH... that which was promised to the FATHER of Israel... Abraham. That promise will NOT come to nothing, for my Father did not create the earth for nothing, but created it to be INHABITED. But it will be inhabited by the "righteous"... those "born" in the manner of the SPIRIT... versus those born... in the manner of the flesh.

The inheritance belongs to the "seed" of "Sarah" (Jerusalem Above)... the children of the NEW Covenant... and it will become theirs.

Again, I bid you peace.

A slave of Christ,

SJ

minimus

That's it!!! Next year I'm partaking.

rocketman

lol @ minimus.

Welcome witnesspaul!

With regard to that scripture in Hebrews, the WTS explains it as meaning the "earthly realm" of the city, and it always seemed me that their explanation was not very convincing.

OHappyDay

Me, too, minimus! There is no provision in the New Testament for mere "observers" at the Memorial.

This "two hopes" thing is a very weak doctrine, indeed.

HEBREWS 11:16

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