Why does it matter whether or not Armageddon is near? (page 3)

Beth Sarim

Many who are able to use critical thinking skills, use their brains & escape the WTs clutches.

Please read Ray Franz's. " Crisis of Conscience" & "In Search of Christian Freedom".

And watch exJW youtube videos. Game over.

🎗️

TxNVSue2023

Tonus OH:

You mentioned something along the lines of it matters because people will change their behavior & be more active etc.

That's part of the question I'm asking. So the sense of urgency make people give more, change their behavior etc-- that's all true. Yes, in addition the WT will have more members & donors. What I'm saying is no person or organization is going to outsmart God & escape judgment. God reads not only thoughts, hearts & intentions, He also knows individual and big picture circumstances. No one is going to buy their way to the new world with extra activity or donations. It also doesn't matter whether or not the WT grows & collects $$. At any time God could take them out of commission & judge the organization. None of these things have an expiration date except your lifespan.

When A comes doesn't really have any affect on the final outcome.

The Bible knowledge & wisdom that WT teaches ( without even considering any dogma) is valuable enough to change people's life for the better & give them hope so they can endure their struggles. The knowledge that there is a God who loves us & provided a savior for us changes lives. This is the core or it - everything else is semantics.

NotFormer

Ron.W. "ps. Here we have a 'newly reinstated' person starting threads on an apostate web site - anyone know what cong the poster is from so we can report them to their congregation elders for loving scriptural correction/wt brainwashing??"

It's a nice idea, but she already suffers Stockholm Syndrome; she was out of their clutches but voluntarily chose to submit herself to their rule. She's suffering enough already.

Every WT apologist that comes here breaks the WT rules by doing so. So, what do they actually believe: that Jehovah can't see what they're doing? That the rules of the GB aren't ultimately Jehovah's rules?

Cognitive dissonance is weird.

Personally, I think she's struggling with a lot of issues and this is her outlet. I don't see any harm in that, except perhaps for the insults against people who try to reason with her. It's not like insults from apologists aren't a dime a dozen. If she thinks she's making an impact on the GB's behalf, she's mistaken.

Beth Sarim

Cognitive dissonance is,, weird.

Ron.W.

Good points NotFormer - I agree.

It's very sad.

"undoubtedly [the] final part of the final part of the last days, shortly before the last day of the last days"

Why does it matter whether or not Armageddon is near?

Two comments from members of the same religion - talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it!!

🤣🤣

TonusOH

TxNVSue2023: No one is going to buy their way to the new world with extra activity or donations.

I agree with your premise. A lack of sincerity will not fool a god who knows our thoughts and intentions. For a believer, this truth should be paramount and ever-present and should guide their every living moment. But I would gather that there are very few people who live this kind of a life, even when they are devout believers in god and in their religious doctrines. It is no accident that "the end is near" messages have been almost constant in the centuries since the birth of Christianity. Perhaps we were created to lack urgency?

By and large, most people --including many devout believers-- live their daily lives with little more than a passing recognition of this cosmic responsibility, despite knowing that a very great or very awful outcome awaits. I think fewer and fewer people are convinced that anything will happen within their lifetimes, if at all. For the believer, this should be moot-- if god will bring about a specific future, it will happen. But I can't help but feel as if more and more, people are living their lives as if nothing is going to happen. And for all of them to date, this attitude has been justified.

An eternal god can exercise eternal patience. A very time-limited human race cannot. At some point, god has to show up, or the human race might realize that he's not something they need to concern themselves with.

TxNVSue2023

TonusOH

I agree, this is pretty much what I've been saying on this thread. The big A will come when it comes whether I'm dead or alive.

God is in control, not us. And humans have plenty of distractions in this life to forget spiritual things. If a sense of urgency is needed for people to wake up from their sleep & stay awake so that they shift their focus from this temporary life to everlasting life - then it serves it's purpose. Not to mention it provides a better life now.

God is proving that he is just - in front of the angels & demons & humans by being patient and giving ample warning to focus on the Kingdom. People prove who they are by their actions. We all know we have free will. God will know the hearts of men & will judge justly.

Foolednomore

Being a Jw is like willfully stepping into dog crap barefoot.

Beth Sarim

Lol!!

Journeyman

Broadly speaking, I agree with TxNVSue2023.

To be a Christian, there is no need to know when Armageddon is coming. In fact, Jesus made it clear we would NOT know and should not expect to. It's one of many things the Org has got all messed up for decades, and even now when they claim they are no longer looking for dates, the evidence of their talks and behaviour (for example the Lett comments about being in the final hours of the final day of the last days) show otherwise.

They are still unnecessarily feeding the rank and file's view that Armageddon is "just around the corner" and that is why they should not give up now, not stop, etc. Rather than emphasise that whether Armageddon comes in "my" or "your" lifetime or not, living according to God's standards is intrinsically worthwhile in itself - not that we are working to an end date. That almost guarantees you are setting people up for disappointment and disillusionment.

He will decide who will & will not be part of the new world.

Again, absolutely right, and this has always been the case, whether humans (including the JW org) have chosen to recognise it or not. It's a self-evident truth that if Armageddon and the coming new world are in God's power, and the power over life and death are also, then the one who determines who lives or dies is Him (and whoever he chooses to give that power to - His Son).

For anyone to say this one dies or that one lives ahead of that is simply arrogance and assuming auithority that doesn't belong to them. It;s one thing to say that individual should live by the standards laid out in the Bible and even to caution that God warns us about the choices we make, but no human can determine the exact outcome of another, Just because the Org now claims it will stop being presumptuous in this matter doesn't change what every JW should already know based on Scripture.

However, I do agree with and understand the passion of members countering TxNVSue2023's points with the fact that the Org HAS claimed to know, or at least to insert itself in as the sole source of divine authority on these subjects, and because of that many JWs have been misled into listening to men rather than God when making plans for their lives around what job to take, whether to marry, have children, move to another land to live, and so on.

As a result, there is a huge legacy of disappointment and bitterness which has nothing to do with what God and Scripture says, but everything to do with the interpretations of men, and in this case, a small group of men in Brooklyn.

Why does it matter whether or not Armageddon is near?

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