What is the best way to deal with those who are leaving the WTS? No doubt everyone is different - some may feel empowered in a way by finding the truth about the truth, others may have that "shattered faith syndrome." Tonight I talked to someone who was also dealing with a drug problem along with depression, and I just didn't feel it was the right time to start questioning all the WTS doctrine. I encouraged her to look into detox and Narcotics Anonymous, and she just seemed appreciative of having support, whereas the chat rooms tend to be filled with debate and name calling. What are your thoughts on this?
Tact in dealing with those who are leaving
by Introspection 10 Replies latest watchtower medical
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Tina
Morning Intro,
What chat rooms are these? And what's wrong with debate? Debate is the free exchange of ideas. You did give sound advice to the person. If they're suffering from drug addiction,depression,first and foremost they need to get medical attention,and then actively pursue recovery......by participating(physically,not cyberly) in the apropos group and therapy.One of the aspects of substance abuse recovery is to learn to interact socially,as isolation is a factor in 'using'. Those socialization and interacting skills can't be accomplished on a computer.
It's been found that many individuals use drugs/alcohol as a form of self-medication for undiagnosed mood/mental disorders.
My personal opinion is that 'shattered faith' can be addressed a bit later,after one has been grounded in recovery for a while. As they say in AA/ NA-First things first! regards,tinaCarl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny...."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense,you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."
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Francois
Transitional periods are dangerous ones. In seeking support and validation many an ex-culter has fallen into the arms of another cult, just as abusive as the Jehovah's Witnesses.
How many women have you known who have gone from one drunken husband to another and another? Or taken the same drunk back time after time after time?
Same phenomena.
Many people who run cult deprogramming services are fronts for other cults. Not good. Best if you can find someone to help with the deprogramming who has been proven to have had no agenda in his past dealings. An honest deprogrammer with no agenda will not object to requests for references. If there is an objection, seek elsewhere.
Best,
Francoise
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Introspection
Tina, there is nothing wrong with debate of course, (if there is REALLY a dialogue) but it doesn't help those who are in need of support. A person can speak out against the WTS with someone who's vulnerable, but it seems to me they could be taking advantage of that vulnerability. To be honest, I just don't think the sensitivity is there most of the time. My concern is just that there is a time and place for everything, and when people are hurt I don't think that's a time for pushing that information.
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Tina
Hi Intro,
Different approaches work for different people.
I personally don't see speaking the truth about that 'trooth' as taking advantage of anyone.I will reiterate using the case you mentioned in your initial post,that chats and boards are not a good place for someone needing to work on severe recovery issues.
This is a place with many individuals,eclectically minded,not a homogenous group.It doesn't pretend to be strictly a support group either.
Seems to me you expect places like this to be run on the support group paradigm. That's not what it's all about.
It's unfortunate but the facts about the wts,the terrible things it has caused,is not a pretty and sensitive topic.
Have you been involved with recovery groups? I have,I also co-faciltated some. Major difference from forums and chat rooms. When people are hurting,professional intervention is obviously needed,where the structure and dynamics are maintained for sensitivity and emotional safety. And that ties in with your time and place comment. These places are often not the time or place. people need to know that recovery options are out there,that they usuually wont be found on a cyber board.(I say usually because some have found it efficacious,but I've observed from their comments that these ones have already made the time and committment FIRST,to the appropriate avenues of recovery)
Pushing information is what these boards ARE all about.Info is shared and debated.I think yyou're really out there in left field with your personal expectations and standards on how people should communicate here,Tina
Ps WHo studied and developed this paradigm for 'shattered faith syndrome" can you direct to empirical research on this 'syndrome"?Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny...."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense,you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."
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larc
Tina,
I think you comments are very well stated and "right on". If people have significant mental problems and/or addictions, they need some professional help until their minds are clear enough to figure out what to do about the aftermath of leaving a high control religion. I think that for many, this forum has been a very valueable supplement to therapy. Also, for those who are relatively intact, forums like this is all they may need to speed up the healing process. However, we can not act as professional therapists or replace a live support group where it is needed, in my opinion.
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larc
Introspection,
I understand your concern about helping someone. There are discussion forums for people who are depressed. There are discussion support forums for people with addictions as well. If your friend feels that they could benefit from interacting on the internet, perhaps these would be better places for them to start.
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larc
Intro,
One other thought. If you want your friend to visit here, why don't you restrict the visit to mental health topics? That way they won't see the raging debates on some other threads. As expected, people give kind, thoughtful comments on the subject of mental health. Perhaps this would work for you and your friend.
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Introspection
Tina and Larc,
Let me explain that I had a one on one conversation with this person through instant messaging. Tina, while I understand your concern that I may expect forums like this to be support groups based on my previous messages, let me say that I do see this is unrealistic at best and, even as someone who have spent a great deal of time socializing online, I see there are very real limitations as well. In fact, my question was only intended to address one on one conversations, I merely mentioned chat rooms because that is where I "met" her, and if you've ever looked at public chat rooms on the web, I'm sure you can see the "signal to noise ratio" is not very good. I do feel that we have a very good community here on j-w.com, from what I've seen the quality of conversation in the chat room is much higher. However, I agree that it is still not a substitute for a real support group. I guess you can say I got rather emotional over the suffering of ex-JW's when I posted those two messages. (which was within a 5 minute interval)
I have participated in support groups, but only once or twice. I look forward to attending an ex-JW group locally this weekend and participate, hopefully "do some good" by my presence if nothing else. I'm sure it will be a learning experience too.
Larc, restricting the visit to mental health topics is a good idea, but how can that be done? I suppose I can suggest it, though..
I really do appreciate the thoughts expressed here by both of you, certainly there are no easy, generic answers. Everyone is different, and I do think we need to focus on the individual.
P.S. Tina, the "shattered faith syndrome" was brought to my attention by someone who put me in touch with a local ex-JW therapist, who in turn invited me to the support group. I guess there is a book on it but I haven't looked at it. Of course, that's why I put it in quotation marks.
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Tina
Hi larc,
Thank you! I appreciate that you understood where I was coming from here. Much appreciated! I also think you're spot on about places like these being a helpful supplement,but shouldn't be a substitute for the recovery process, Warm regards,TinaHi Intro,
Upon re-reading my post-it may have come across a bit harsh. My apologies,I certainly didn't intend that.
You're going to the group? Excellent! I do hope you share you observations and experience! I'm always open and quite interested in hearing about different theraputic strategies and experiences,,warm regards,TinaCarl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny...."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense,you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."