by pale.emperor 114 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
History lesson:
Can you please tell me, in about what year did the organization first start proclaiming that the year 1914 was the start of the last days?
or a more leading question could be.
Leading up to 1914, how many years before 1914 had Charles Russell and the International Bible Students been teaching that the heavenly kingdom was going to be established in 1914?
Do you really think that you will not die?
The following is from http://www.clayjones.net/2010/08/a-question-the-jehovah%E2%80%99s-witnesses-can%E2%80%99t-answer/
Christian: Let me ask you only one question and after you answer it, I’ll answer any question you want. First I need to clarify a few things. In the New World Translation, John 1:1 reads: “In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” Then in Isaiah 9:6 (NWT) we read: “For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” So then, does Jehovah equal almighty God?
JW: Yes.
C: Now Jesus isn’t Jehovah, right?
JW: That’s right.
C: Jesus equals a Mighty God?
JW: That is correct.
C: Is Jehovah a true God or a false God?
JW: Jehovah is a true God.
C: Is Jesus a true God or a false God?
JW: Jesus is a true God.
C: Okay, here’s my question: How can you believe there are two true Gods when the Bible says there is only one God? After all, it says in Isaiah 43:10-11 (NWT), “Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.” And Isa: 44:6 (NWT) says: “I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.”
JW: That passage is teaching that there are no capital “G” gods.
C: Hebrew doesn’t have capital letters so the capitalization of the “G” in those passages is an insertion by the NW translators to make us believe there are two categories of gods. It is equivalent to their just inserting the word “almighty” in the text. If the Lord had wanted to proclaim that “besides me there is no Almighty God” instead of what it really says, “beside me there is no god,” He could easily have had Isaiah insert the word “Almighty” in those passages. But He didn’t.
JW: Well, we only worship one God.
C: If I only loved one wife but was married to two women, I would still be a polygamist and your believing there are two true Gods even though you only worship one of them still makes you a polytheist. The Bible says there is only one God.
JW: But the Bible calls Satan a God.
C: Is Satan a true God or a false God?
JW: A false God.
C: You still have two true Gods.
JW: But in Ex. 4:16 (NWT) it says that Moses “will serve as God to him [Pharaoh].”
C: It says Moses will serve “as God.” In other translations of this verse it says Moses will be “like God” to him. Do you see a difference between serving “as” God or “like” God and really being a god? For example, if I said an older woman was “as a mother to me” it wouldn’t mean that I actually came out of her womb, right? Do you see the difference?”
JW: But the word “God” is just a title that can be used for those on the side of God.
C: Then there would be lots of true Gods, but John 17:3 (NWT) says “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” If that’s true, how could you say that Jesus is a true God?
JW: As I said, we only worship one God.
C: But I’m not asking about how many Gods you worship, I’m asking about how many Gods you think are true. Can you think of a time when someone says that ‘X’ is the ‘only true’ ‘X’ that it doesn’t make everything else in that category false? If there God is the ‘only true’ God then any other god must be a false god, but you have already said that Jehovah and Jesus are both true Gods and that makes… count them… two true Gods.
JW: 1 Cor. 8:4-6 says “…there is no God but one. For even though there are those who are called ‘gods,’ whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords,’ there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.” See, the Father is God, not Jesus.
C: But you’ve already agreed there are two true Gods and this passage says there is only one God.
JW: You’re talking about the Trinity.
C: No, I’m pointing out that Jehovah’s Witnesses are polytheists who believe there is more than one true God, even though the Bible tells us there is only one true God.
JW: We didn’t come here to argue. [What?]
C: Okay, well, if you want to bring someone back, I’ll be glad to talk with them. [That hasn’t happened yet.]
paley - C: Is Jesus a true God or a false God?
Possibly here, if I were still a jobo, I'd have responded that Jesus isn't a god as such. I wouldn't have been willing to get into dialogue either.
Good little conversation but it goes much further than most jobos would go, I reckon. I was never really willing to enter into theological discussions with non jobos.........it always felt half hearted....perhaps deep down I knew it was rhubarb.
Not that I give a monkeys now that I'm a reluctant atheist.
Regarding David and Bathsheba's baby:
About the origin of the wedding cake, ring and veil etc. Your corporation says that these pagan things are okay because they are popularly used in culture now. Unlike other things of similar origins. Why the inconstancy?
BONUS QUESTION: You know you're in a weird cult, right?
Me: Do you believe the Bible says that Christendom has blood guilt 'reaching clear up to heaven'?
JW: Yes!
Me: The blood guilt must be paid for to satisfy God's justice, right?
JW: Absolutely!
Me: For decades, Jehovah's Witnesses forbade vaccinations, organ transplants and blood fractions, but they began allowing them in more recent years. Who is responsible for those who died in the process? Who owns their blood guilt?
Show me what connection there is between Jesus' parable of the Faithful & Discrete Slave and the 144,000 in Revelation.
Here are some of the few examples of how your light has gotten “brighter” over the years.
On the resurrection of men of Sodom
1879- They will be resurrected
1952- They will not be resurrected. “The light got brighter?”
1965- They will be resurrected “The light got dimmer?”
1988- They will not be resurrected “The light got brighter” once again
About the separating of the "sheep and the goats"
1919- It will take place after the time of tribulation
1923- It is taking place now, before the tribulation. “The gets brighter?”
1995- It will take place after the time of tribulation. “The gets dimmer?”
Then you have the ‘Lord’ in Romans 10: 12-16
1903- 'Lord' refers to Jesus
1940- 'Lord’ refers to Jehovah
1978- 'Lord' refers to Jesus
1980- 'Lord' refers to Jehovah
So yes the "light gets brighter" but I guess God is on a dimmer switch sometimes! But who knows maybe it’s not god changing his mind about all this stuff. It’s just the confused church leaders, just like other religions!
I know all this “new light” stuff is pretty confusing. So just ask any Jehovah’s Witnesses about it. They won’t be able to explain it either.
How would you know if you were in a cult?
If you went to look for a fridge to possibly buy and the store said you were only allowed to read their reviews of a certain fridge. You are not allowed to read critical reviews of the fridge, what would you think of the retailer? Why don't you feel the same way about what you are not allowed to research about your religion?
BONUS QUESTION: When did you first start hearing those voices in your head?
